Announcer
Welcome to Agency For Change, the podcast that brings you the stories of people creating positive change in the world. We explore what inspires these changemakers, the work they’re doing and how they share their message. Each of us can play a part in change. And these are the people who show us how.

Lyn Wineman
Hello Changemakers, this is Lyn Wineman, Founder, and Chief Strategist of KidGlov with another episode of Agency For Change podcast. Today we’re talking with Cammy Watkins, the deputy director of Inclusive Communities. This is a nonprofit organization that works to confront prejudice, bigotry, and discrimination…big things. They do this through powerful human relations work and they’re providing education and advocacy related to the topics of diversity and inclusion. They work with schools, businesses, and in the community. Cammy, thank you so much for talking with us today.

Cammy Watkins
Thank you. I’m so glad to be here.

Lyn Wineman
Absolutely. I’m so glad to have you here. Would you start by telling us more about Inclusive Communities and the work that you do?

Cammy Watkins
As you said, we are a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization and our focus is really human relations and development. Our mission is simply to confront prejudice, bigotry, and discrimination. And we do that through promoting awareness, helping leaders with power-building and power-sharing in order to better advocate for a more diverse, equitable, and inclusive community, teams, businesses, schools. And my work specifically within the organization, started originally as our operations and business development manager before being promoted to the deputy director position. My role is really helping us with our systems change work. That’s our work with states and municipalities, really large, alliance- type partners and businesses to see not only how do we address those interpersonal pieces of equity and inclusion, but also the institutional piece of how do we really start to change those systems that have created those circles and cycles of discrimination?

Cammy Watkins
My role is working mostly with the mayors in Norfolk, Nebraska as well as Lincoln. And then we do some work with the city of Omaha, particularly with the Human Rights and Relations Department, but I’ve also worked with a few other smaller departments there. I am so excited to get to work with community leaders and city leaders to talk about what it looks like when we just start to try to dig deeper and ask those harder questions about why things are this way and how do we change it to make sure that it’s equitable for everyone.

Lyn Wineman
I think that’s really fascinating because you kind of wish you could just tell people, Hey change. Right? But humans are fascinating and it’s just not that easy. There’s so much history. Actually, it’s interesting, as I was getting ready to talk to you today, I was looking at your website and this statement popped out at me. It said, there perhaps has never been a stronger need for programs and initiatives which promote tolerance, respect, and inclusion through education and advocacy. And I thought, wow, that’s amazing. And as I was thinking about your organization, I did not realize that you were actually founded in 1938 and this has been a problem and an issue for a long time. I guess we know that, but it’s really bubbling up right now.  Could you tell us a little bit more about the history of Inclusive Communities?

Cammy Watkins
We were established in 1938 originally as the Midlands chapter of the National Conference of Christians and Jews. So, the acronym was NCCJ. And in that kind of historical context, the conversation was centered around who is an American. We were started in response to some really overt antisemitism and some heinous acts that were being committed by the Ku Klux Klan at that time. From the very beginning of our organization, we’ve been really engaged in mobilizing against those divisive forces of violence and ignorance and exclusion, and the founders and the early volunteers and members of the organization were really seeking to embrace diversity and build strong community. One of the interesting facts about our organization, NCCJ is actually a national or was a national organization, the founding of the very, very first national Conference for Christians and Jews was formed in 1927.

Lyn Wineman
Oh my, even earlier.

Cammy Watkins
Yes. And so it’s evolved as the world has changed and the work that we do has evolved also, to not only just address discrimination and prejudice around faith and race, it’s now addressing all identities, age, ability, sexual orientation, gender identity, everything. And that’s why we shifted our name around, in the 2000s, to Inclusive Communities and the National Federation changed to the National Federation for Just Communities. But 1927 when they started, it was because there was a presidential candidate that was spreading hateful rhetoric about certain ethnicities and religions. And at that time, it was Catholics and Jewish individuals.

Cammy Watkins
The founders just simply said enough, and they formed the organization to really combat that hatred. So when we say that there’s never been a stronger need for, from our perspective, for this type of work, it’s really that when we see the ugliest pieces of our history starting to repeat itself, that we have to be ready to engage in education and advocacy and learn from those lessons of our past mistakes and our shortcomings so that we can do better this time around.

Lyn Wineman
Wow. You know, it’s a little bit sad to me that we’ve had this history and this issue in our country for so long, but also I think it’s great that your organization has such a strong foundation because that will make your work stronger and faster and more effective because you can build on that. Cammy, since this is October of 2020, and it’s National Women’s Small Business Month, I’m really very interested in your perspective on whether systematic racism is, in fact, a business issue.

Cammy Watkins
So yes, the very short answer is yes.

Lyn Wineman
This will be a very good podcast if you stopped there.

Cammy Watkins
Yeah, but to take a little longer.  My background is in psychology and music, but I have always been a lover of history. And I definitely look back at that to show us the answers or to help us make better choices as we go forward. So, I have to give a little historical context of it…my answer of why I say yes. The founder of Inclusive Communities was Otto Swanson and he was the owner of the Nebraska Clothing Company. And if you’re familiar at all with Omaha, in the Old Market, the Tannenbaum store used to be the Nebraska Clothing Company and that was his business.

Cammy Watkins
He started our organization because he was appalled by the decision of some other businessmen who came to his door and they were trying to conduct a secret boycott of Jewish-owned businesses. They touted that it would be a benefit to him because his business was Christian-owned. And Otto Swanson, he was later quoted as saying, “I couldn’t believe anything like that could happen, not in the United States and certainly not in Omaha.” And because we know 1938 was really the height of the antisemitism movement around the country, it was impacting us here.

Cammy Watkins
He got together with a few other businessmen, you may or may not know their names. W. Dale Clark, who was a banker, Milton Livingston, who was just a general businessman, and Ralph Svoboda, who was an attorney. These are names that are on buildings in our city now. And they joined with some other leading citizens and organizations and our organization was born. And so, if in 1938, four prominent businessmen didn’t see it as their duty to speak up and speak out against hate and discrimination around ethnicity and religion, which evolved over time to tackling issues around marginalized identities, our organization wouldn’t exist.

Cammy Watkins
And through some of our partners in the organizations that own businesses that we work with, I’m almost certain that the business that people were trying to start the secret boycott against was Nebraska Furniture Mart.

Lyn Wineman
Oh my.

Cammy Watkins
Because Nebraska Furniture Mart was started by Rose Blumkin in 1936. And it was in 1938 when this incident happened, when they founded our organization. And so I’m still doing a little bit more research, but in talking with the folks over at NFM, how many other Jewish-owned businesses would have been that big of a threat to others that they felt they needed to do that? So just think about it. Think about if these gentlemen, these business owners didn’t see it as their responsibility. And so I think one of the, as leaders and business leaders, the challenging question that we have to ask ourselves is, why would racism not be a business issue now, when we are facing similar problems as in the 1930s and the 1960s, especially knowing that businesses today have so much more influence and positioning to make change?

Lyn Wineman
Wow. I love that you use people’s names because when you used people’s names, that made me think about when they write the history of 2020. When they write the history of 2020 and say who is going to make the changes, it could be anybody that’s listening, right? Any of us could stand up and our names could be written down as the people who are deciding to step up and make a difference. And I think that’s really cool and empowering because sometimes it feels like I’m just one person, that I can’t make a difference, but that was just four people. And you know what, I hope that when they write the history of 2020, that there are women’s names in there in addition to the men’s names. Right?

Cammy Watkins
Absolutely.

Lyn Wineman
I think that’s great. I know this topic could fill many podcasts, but I’m going to ask you anyway. Cammy, what advice do you have for business leaders who do want to make better choices to overcome prejudice, bigotry, and discrimination?

Cammy Watkins
I would really say step one is awareness and acknowledgement that you don’t know what you don’t know. And thus, there is very likely a problem that you aren’t aware of that exists, but it does. And that we have to stop this sense of…I have to do it right or I shouldn’t do it at all. We are human. We are flawed. We will make mistakes. That is our nature. And it is only through those mistakes that we can learn and grow. So if we don’t make these mistakes and then we just try to cover it up, and we just keep trying to do things the way that we’ve always done it, we’re not going to grow. But it’s about that failing forward kind of mentality.

Cammy Watkins
So first, just being aware of the…I don’t know, and it’s okay that I don’t know…because there’s very few things that someone, one person, knows all that we need to know. So, say I don’t know, and I’m going to take the time to build my awareness and learn and grow. What does this look like in first, my house, in me, my interpersonal relationships.  Do that self-reflection. That’s really got to be the first part of that awareness of what I don’t know. Where are the biases that have been shaped in the socialization that I’ve had in my life, centered around the aspects of people that are different from myself?

Cammy Watkins
And then acknowledge that, yeah, I possibly have played a role in either personally or professionally perpetuating prejudice, bigotry, and discrimination. So that’s really step two, accountability and ownership. On that kind of person-to-person level and whether it be intentionally or unintentionally. Then we cannot sit on that shame island of, I probably have been doing things that were prejudice against other people, and I never knew it. Acknowledging that and being accountable for it. Sometimes we get into this shame spiral where it’s like, Oh, my goodness, I am a bad person.

Cammy Watkins
You’re not a bad person. Especially when you start to talk to others about it. We recognize that these messages and stereotypes and biases are surrounding us every single day. And even someone who is born in rural Nebraska, in North Platte or someone born in Omaha, there are similar stereotypes that we know about different individuals. There’s an activity that we do at Inclusive Communities, for things we learned growing up and we just accept. It’s one of those pivotal activities that we do that folks are like, I absolutely hated doing it, but I loved what I gained from it. We actually just have them think about what are those biases and stereotypes that you’ve learned from various organizations or institutions or individuals. Or from your family and friends, from media and from churches or schools. And we just sit in silence and do this individually and that really teaches us about the old kind of self-awareness but then learning and how did I get this information.

Cammy Watkins
And it’s important for us to point out in that activity, that these things are taught. We also say, Oh, it’s a learned behavior, but it’s actually a taught behavior. And we all have the power, in our educators, and in one way or another in our life, to pass these messages on. So, while it’s very impactful, we can break these cycles. We can break these cycles when we interpersonally choose to teach different messages and we change the experiences and broaden our perspective.

Cammy Watkins
So that’s on the really institutional level, but as business leaders, that self-worth has to be first. That accountability to personally, but then as a leader, take it that one extra step and really think about it institutionally. What are the ways, what are those dig deeper, deep dive questions and uncomfortable questions about how discrimination and prejudice is showing up in my business and then acknowledge your role as the leader in that, in kind of setting a tone for that. But then, be ready to address it in asking, how do we move forward? Because if you can’t start with that awareness and then the accountability, you’re going to have a real hard time actually changing. And I think there’s a lot of us as leaders that find it’s hard to say, I might be wrong, or I may have been wrong, but we have to get so much more comfortable with that. I really pushed that idea of failing forward. We have to recognize that it’s not a falling down. It’s a falling up.

Lyn Wineman
Cammy, I feel like that was a masterclass in one answer. Right? It was so good. And I tried to take notes here on the big steps, and I think I’ve got it here, but I just want to reinforce because I think it was so good. Step one is really self-awareness, make yourself aware of what’s going on. Step two, acknowledge that you may have played a part and be accountable for that. But I really like what you said about getting out of the shame spiral too. Step three is acknowledge then, that you have the power to either pass this teaching on, or you have the power to stop it and break the cycle. And then as a leader, we can take ownership for our own institution and be willing to say, I have been wrong. We need to make some changes and then make those changes. Once again, sounds easy enough, but it’s very, very hard work. Our computer brains have been programmed early in life and changing that cycle is just a big deal.

Cammy Watkins
And knowing that you’re going to make mistakes back and forth. This isn’t a direct line. I always think about in Michelle Obama’s book, Becoming, when she talks about that swerve and that resonated with me so much because in life, I’m a very structure-oriented person. I had all of these plans about where my life was supposed to go. And I very quickly learned, Nope, you got to swerve. And none of this is a straight line. It’s an up and down hill. It’s a rollercoaster. So, we’re going to go backwards sometimes a bit. As long as we know that trajectory and that we’ll take some loops and turns we didn’t expect, we’ve got to stay focused on the value of what we’re trying to accomplish in the importance of equity and justice for all individuals.

Lyn Wineman
That is really good. And since you brought up your life and your plan, I’d really like to know more about you, Cammy.  What has really led you to this position at this point in your life? Did you grow up as a little girl saying, I want to fight prejudice and bigotry and discrimination? You might have, but how did you get from there to here?

Cammy Watkins
So, it’s funny you say that. As a little girl, I was, like you said, super goal-focused and oriented. And I have always been this person my entire life.

Lyn Wineman
That’s so cool.

Cammy Watkins
Like when I think back about little mini Cammy.  I had a watch. I remember when I got my first watch and it was the greatest thing, its in every photo. At six years old, I’m wearing a watch. Why is a six-year-old wearing a watch? I don’t know, but it was very important for me to be on time. And I had, since I was little, it was probably about like sixth grade or so, I had just decided that my purpose in life was to make a difference. And I didn’t know how or why, but I knew that there was a reason I had to be here and it was to make a difference in the lives of other people.

Cammy Watkins
And I always wanted to, whether it was an animal, when I was really little, I wanted to take care of animals and then it became children. I knew that I needed to go into a career in nonprofit because I knew the work that I had to do had to be hard work. It couldn’t just be for money. And I never wanted to go into a business. I’ve had opportunities where folks have said, Hey, you should really come to the corporate world. I love that so many more corporations are moving to that artwork and still making a profit off of it, but my passion – I knew had to be part of a nonprofit. So I have been my entire adult career. I’ve worked exclusively in nonprofit organizations with that drive of, I just need to be making a difference. And that’s my purpose.

Cammy Watkins
I didn’t really know what that would look like or how. Each position I had just kind of progressed to where I am today. And getting a chance to work mostly in community organizing and building, I got to meet so many different individuals. Before I was with Inclusive Communities, I was with Habitat For Humanity, doing housing, affordable housing, and working with a lot of community members in North and South Omaha, as well as a lot of immigrant and refugee families. And I started to see so much of that divisiveness happening in the way that people would talk about these families and the communities, even folks that live next door to them, just the divides amongst people.

Cammy Watkins
And I loved the work I was doing and the people and the lives that I was able to help. I think over a hundred families ended up getting homes during the time of the three years that I was there. But I just was like, I need to be doing more. I’m not doing enough. And I wanted to be part of helping bridge this divide that I saw growing over the last few years and really coming to a precipice.

Cammy Watkins
So, at the end of December in 2016, I reached out to Maggie Wood who’s our executive director. And she and I had known each other because we had crossed paths in other nonprofit jobs throughout both of our careers. And I just said to her, “You know Maggie, I’m looking for…” And I knew she was working, as the ed of Inclusive Communities. I reached out to her and another friend, Kirsten Case, and said, “I am looking for work in programming or operations, but I want to be doing and helping talk to people in more social justice work.” And Maggie texted me back and said, check your email. She had literally just posted my job that day.

Lyn Wineman
Wow. Some things are just supposed to work out the way that they do. Right?

Cammy Watkins
Yeah. And it was just complete happenstance that this position was open on the day that I needed to be part of a bigger movement, not just helping people individually, but how do we start to do this institutionally? And that’s how I ended up here. So, I am reluctant to say I’m kind of this diversity and inclusion expert. I feel like that’s such an antiquated word because none of us are experts because everything changes. But I knew about people and caring for individuals and humans was important to me and this just fell open. I dove into the literature and the information to learn about the identities. And I’ve grown as an individual from my work here. I think it’s hard to do this work and not hear the stories of hundreds of people and their journey and their experiences.

Cammy Watkins
One of my former colleagues at Habitat had said this in a team retreat – that my perception is my reality. But your perspective is my wisdom. And I carried that with me.  It just mushroomed when I started working here at Inclusive Communities, because it’s so, so true. We all can only see the world through our own lenses, but it’s our responsibility to learn the perspectives of others. And that’s how we gain our wisdom and that’s how we grow.

Lyn Wineman
Wow. Cammy, I can just tell when I talk with people who are living their passion. They’ve found a way for their passion and their career to go together and it’s authentic. You can just see the light in their eyes and hear the excitement in their voice. And I feel that when I talk with you.  We also asked you to speak as part of our series of women in small business on this podcast, knowing that you work for a nonprofit and have a nonprofit career, but also knowing how much the work you do can really impact businesses.

Lyn Wineman
I have this belief that in order for a business to be great, the community has to be great and the people have to be thriving in that community and it all has to work together.

Cammy Watkins
Absolutely.

Lyn Wineman
And I know that’s a big part of the work that you do. So, I’m curious, Cammy, what advice do you have for someone who aspires to lead positive change like you do?

Cammy Watkins
I would say it’s really about knowing who you are and what are your values. It’s interesting that I’ve always looked at nonprofits. We are businesses too, in very much the way the rest of small businesses are.

Lyn Wineman
You are. You have to make the payroll and budget. The bank doesn’t just let your check sail through because you’re nonprofit.

Cammy Watkins
Right. We’re paying bills. We’re the only business that’s classified by our tax status, but we’re businesses as well. I think one of the things that nonprofits do well and small businesses do well, that I think many other companies can start to take on is, that we are based on and we’re set in our values. We are mission-driven. And as a leader, we have to also do the work to know what my values are. My number one value is perfect. And that is what drives and leads me. I decided and operationalize that. This is how I am, I’m super type A. I am a Virgo, so my birthday’s just passed.

Lyn Wineman
I love Virgo. I’m not a Virgo but I have so many Virgos in my life and I get what you’re saying.

Cammy Watkins
So, how do you know what your values are? There’s tons of exercises and leadership trainings and programs that you can go through to work through that process of identifying what are your leadership intentions, what are your leadership values. And then operationalize that, what does that look like? Because I think too often we place leadership based on skills, this person is a commanding leader and they can do this. But when we think about the leader that’s made the most positive change in our lives, we’re not thinking about their spreadsheets or that big oration. We’re talking about how they made us feel and how they led through empathy and their caring. Those are important aspects and those are where we make positive change.

Cammy Watkins
We can make change being a leader that’s more about the tangibles and those great spreadsheets and wonderful PowerPoints. But is that always positive? And are you bringing folks along with you? Are you just managing and not leading? So that would be the advice I give, really know who you are, be concrete and stable in your values and be authentic to that, and really set your leadership intention. And if that intention is to leave this world better than where you found it, or the situation, then show up in that, in how you lead.

Lyn Wineman
That is really great advice. You know, you hit on something that is a pet peeve of mine. I hate the phrase when it’s said, somebody has a strong personality, and it’s used to describe somebody who’s difficult, or maybe obstinate or rude. And I’m thinking, that’s not a strong personality. That’s a weak personality. The strong personality is the person that can lead with empathy and patience and love and consideration for mission and purpose and people. So, I love what you said there.

Cammy Watkins
Yes. Like Melissa Copeland, I don’t know if you’ve ever worked with her. She’s amazing. We actually, for our LeadDIVERSITY program, we always bring her in to do the very first session. And she says leadership is based in love. And that’s where growth is, not fear.

Lyn Wineman
I have not met Melissa, but she’s now on my list of people I need to meet in the near future. Cammy, I’m going to ask you one marketing question because I’m a marketing person and I’m fairly passionate about marketing and advertising. What are the things that you do at Inclusive Communities to get the word out about your good work?

Cammy Watkins
I am not a marketing person, don’t yell at me. Up until, really, the start of the pandemic we mostly did word of mouth. We did not actively market, we did not have a strong marketing or communication program or plan. We hodgepodged through it and have been really fortunate that the authenticity and the integrity of our work was able to carry us. That without actively promoting or requesting people to come to us, we were able to have steady business. But around March, we realized when everything went virtual, we needed to have a stronger presence. And most of that was going to be social media.

Cammy Watkins
So, we hired a social media contractor who now, we were able to hire as our communications manager. And it’s really been that digital kind of engagement that has been the best way for us to get the word out. Just having someone constantly and intentionally with the strategy and a plan around, How do we tell our story? Because we were just so focused on doing the work, this work is important. And many of us are very low ego individuals. We don’t want to have it be us, it’s not all about us. It’s really about the team and what we do. We weren’t saying or telling that story ever. She’s really raised the bar for all of us and then reaching out to media in doing that communication and all of the plans and partnerships. It’s definitely now, social media is our main strategy around word of mouth as well, but really branding ourselves and getting our story out.

Lyn Wineman
Good for you. You know, I hear that from a lot of nonprofits, they’re so focused on the work and the mission and they’re very low ego and very, very careful with the money. And it’s hard to spend money to invest in getting your story out, but particularly now when we’re social distancing and there aren’t as many gatherings so finding those ways and social media and earned media can be a great way to do that. Very smart. It sounds like you’re on top of it. Cammy, I did want to ask you a little bit about what are some of the specific programs that Inclusive Communities offers that people might take advantage of?

Cammy Watkins
We do programming for youth, adults in the business world and nonprofit and then we also have our community programming. Our youth programming starts as young as middle school. And we partner with Collective for Youth, which is a nonprofit that oversees the after-school programs around our community. And so,, we do after-school programs. Right now, it’s kind of on a hiatus with most of OPS being virtual, but we also do that work in Council Bluffs. We have our youth programming there.  Our main foundational program is our four-day high school residential camp called Inclusivity. And that has really been the foundation of our organization. That camp started over 20 years ago, or just about 20 years ago, in 2000.

Lyn Wineman
Oh, my goodness. That’s a track record.

Cammy Watkins
Yes. And we had always said that the program was about getting these kids ready for the world so that they could come and then really build on that and learn what empathy in civil discourse and what advocating for people different from yourself was. To not only be advocates in their school, but then to be that in the community. This whole time we’ve been preparing these kids for the world, and then we realized about 2015 or so this world wasn’t ready for these kids. So many of them, after they started going into the business world, they’re just like, I’m not seeing the values and the culture that I want to have.

Cammy Watkins
And it’s really interesting. Some of our alumni are in diversity and inclusion roles now. The chief diversity officer at Doane University came through Inclusivity when he was in high school.

Lyn Wineman
Oh, that’s great.

Cammy Watkins
And he says, that was really my first training as a DNI director. And Bianca Harley, who is the Greater Omaha Chamber senior director for community and diversity also went through, back then it was called Anytown. So that program is what helped us branch out to everything else. We use those concepts in the lessons that we start with high school students, which now is molded into freshmen in college and they are part of that camp as well, in universities. And we use that to build our business programming.

Cammy Watkins
Our business programming is a mix of those foundational identity communications and intentional inclusion work. Then there is also our consulting wing, our project-ready program, which we just realized people as adults, need this person to talk to them. That’s really the bulk of what we do now, the business and youth programming. And then our community program is our Omaha Table Talk, which was originally started by Catholic charities. Several of the board been had hosting it. The idea came from Dallas and they have Dallas Dinner Talks, that they decided to start here. It’s essentially just getting people to come together and have uncomfortable conversations over comfort food. We always feed folks except for now, because we’ve gone all virtual, but we keep thinking, how do we figure out how to feed people?

Lyn Wineman
It’s amazing how food really brings people to the table, right?

Cammy Watkins
Yes. So those are really our main programs and the ways that we engage with the community. All of our Omaha Table Talks are free to the public. We want to make sure that we create spaces for people to gain this information, but also learn and hear the perspectives on issues that you won’t typically hear in the mainstream. We had a workshop, a session on saving our sisters, which was about trans women of color. The issue we’ve seen there is because there’ve been several trans women that have been murdered around the country, and it’s not a story.

Cammy Watkins
All three of our panelists were trans women of color from Omaha and they just had this chance to share, it was this really intimate conversation. We created these really brave spaces for people to share their stories. But then for our participants, they got to have small group conversations and talk about how their lives are impacted with the trans women and men in our audience. And for us, that’s such a testament to the space we’re able to create for people to come and learn and share with each other.

Lyn Wineman
Yeah, that they felt like they could come in and tell their story and share and ask. That is really neat. For people who are listening, who would really like to learn more about your work or maybe volunteer or donate or contract some of your services, Cammy, how could they find out more about you?

Cammy Watkins
So definitely check out our website, which is inclusive-communities.org. We’re also really active on Facebook. We usually post most of our events on Facebook, LinkedIn, and Instagram. So, any of those platforms, if you follow us on there, you’ll definitely know about our events and activities and things coming up. We also have something that’s super exciting. We’ve been launching into leadership programs around creating diversity and inclusion as a competency of leadership. Bellevue University is who we’re partnering with and we’re wrapping up our transformational leadership program with them. And then, like I mentioned, our LeadDIVERSITY program is a selection group. This year we selected 36 people and it’s a nine-month program that they started in September and they’ll end in May and graduate in June.

Lyn Wineman
Wow. That’s really cool, really cool. All right. I have one last question for you. One thing that’s getting me through the pandemic in 2020 is motivational quotes. I love motivational quotes. Could you give us a few of your own words of wisdom that people could be inspired by?

Cammy Watkins
Something that’s really been sticking with me, especially knowing that we are in this, the 100th year of women’s suffrage, is the back process of how black women and white women were working together for many years. But then at some point in there it got sidelined, the 15th Amendment versus the 19th Amendment, and the decision of black women. It’s like we didn’t want black men to get the vote before white women. So for me, the lesson that I learned from that kind of historical context was – don’t let what we could do, sideline what we should do.

Lyn Wineman
Oh, chills.

Cammy Watkins
That’s really what I’ve been ruminating on as I think about the work that I do and what my next steps are and where I’m going and heading in my leadership journey.  So many times we get caught up in the timeline of when we want something done, that we may compromise what really has to be done in that moment.

Lyn Wineman
Wow. Cammy, this has been such a pleasure. I feel like I could talk to you all day, but we probably have to wrap this up.  I know people will find your story inspiring and your advice very helpful, and just thank you and Inclusive Communities for all that you do.

Cammy Watkins
Thank you. It’s been such a great joy to chat with you, and I appreciate you giving us this opportunity to talk about the work that we all do.

Lyn Wineman
Absolutely. Have a great day.

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