Chris Baker

• Connect with Chris Baker on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbaker115/ 
• Learn more about OneSeed Expeditions: https://www.oneseedexpeditions.com/  

Chris Baker: 

Vote with your wallet. 

Announcer:

Welcome to Agency for Change, a podcast from KidGlov that brings you the stories of changemakers who are actively working to improve our communities. In every episode, we’ll meet with people who are making a lasting impact in the places we call home.

Lyn Wineman:

If you are fortunate enough to have traveled internationally, you know what a life changing experience it is to be immersed in the language and culture of another country. It’s an opportunity where you are reminded that the world is bigger than you think, and there are people living in ways so radically different from your own that it opens your eyes to new possibilities. Today we’re going to speak with the founder of a company that has set out to give people just that, from high mountain treks to multi-sport adventures.

This organization uses local guides to take travelers on unforgettable, unique experiences where they can see new cultures and customs. So stay tuned as we discuss how this company got its start, the ways they’re helping entrepreneurs around the world, and why the work they’re doing is so important. Hey, everyone, this is Lyn Wineman, president and chief strategist at KidGlov. Welcome to another episode of the Agency for Change Podcast. Today’s guest is Chris Baker, founder of OneSeed Expeditions, which offers international travel experiences designed to immerse people in the unfamiliar, all while investing in local economies and helping to protect the environment. Chris, welcome to the podcast.

Chris Baker:

Well, thanks for having me.

Lyn Wineman:

Ah, Chris, I’m so excited to talk to you. I got distracted before we started this conversation, just looking at your website, because your website is now my bucket list, I just want to say, and we’ll dive deeper into that. But can you just start, for people who haven’t spent five minutes scrolling through your website, describe what OneSeed Expeditions is and who you serve?

Chris Baker:

Yeah. Absolutely. So OneSeed Expeditions, we’re really two things at once. At our core, we’re a guiding outfitter. We really focus on multi-day human powered expeditions all around the world. So when we talk about what we do, it’s mostly long distance treks, mountain circuits, and really getting people into remote, beautiful areas, and then we run all the logistics around that. So we take people and all their things up mountains and try to bring all of them back down. And so that’s our core business, and that’s what we do right now in eight different countries around the world. And we work with all local guides in each of those countries to provide you this unique access to the places where we work, and also to provide just the best experience on the trail. So first and foremost, we’re a guiding outfitter, but at the same time, we’re also a social enterprise with a really clear mission to use travel as a way of funding entrepreneurship in the places where we operate.

So from the very beginning, we’ve used 10% of our total revenue…Each year we cycle through a microfinance loan program, and we work with local nonprofits to underwrite small business loans. So we’re these two very different things going on at once. So for most of the folks that we serve, customer side, they see us as a great outfitter, someone who’s able to take them up Kilimanjaro, Everest Base Camp, or do a trek through Patagonia, and provide them really great service with all the great human supply chain that we have along that.

And then the other folks who we serve are the individual entrepreneurs in the countries where we underwrite loans. And so those are usually small business owners working in informal sectors, so small retail, grocery, agricultural, livestock, and we allow them increase access to credit, play a really small part in a really big system, and trying to solve a really big problem. We’re a really tight part of that, but where we are is we’re access to capital for small scale entrepreneurs. So those are the two things that we try to do at once, and we’ve been doing it for about 12 years now.

Lyn Wineman:

Chris, it sounds like it’s such a great mashup. You make everybody happy, you make travelers happy, you take them to great destinations. It can be so overwhelming to plan an overseas trip to an area you’ve never been to or don’t know anything about, but yet then you give back to the communities in such a unique way. How did you get started in this business?

Chris Baker:

Yeah. So the idea itself really came from trying to solve for a problem, which is, I think, a good starting place for any business. And the problem that we were trying to solve was one, I think initially, came from a pretty personal place. Just in my own experiences as a traveler, I spent a lot of my late teens and 20s backpacking around a lot. And there was always this gap in the things that travelers want, which is really… They want an experience that provides them access to a place, and from that access is achieved through really great guides. So they want to have a really great local guide. They also want levels of expertise and security in that guiding, especially in some of the areas where we work much more remote back country, high altitude areas.

And then they also want to be able to provide some kind of meaningful impact in places they’re traveling to. And those dual interests can sometimes get a little crust in models like volunteerism, for example, where you’re trying to do both those things at once, but they are sometimes intentioned or you’re maybe… And I speak from personal experience, as an 18-year-old, I moved to Nepal to be an English teacher. I was very much in that mindset of I’m going to travel to a place and I’m going to do something really valuable for other people because somehow by traveling from far away, I’m bringing some sort of extra knowledge and ability.

And as an 18-year-old, again none of those things, but I went and I moved to Nepal as an 18-year-old, was teaching English, was an awful English teacher, but learned a ton, and so saw both the motivations. There are travelers, they’re wanting to go to a place have a really positive impact, but not always being able to make that happen through that model. So we look at microfinance as a way of really being able to support entrepreneurship through a really clear and transparent model. For us, we just take a 10% of our revenue and we cycle that through a loan fund. So travelers know when they pay us how much of that is being cycled through the loan fund.

And then, for working with local communities, I spent some time working in microfinance and in Nepal, where we started the company, and had the experience of seeing what people could do with relatively small amounts of capital. And so the business really started with trying to take this really powerful thing, which is tourism and travel, and align that with the interest of the traveler, which is to have a positive impact, but also to align it with the interest of the communities where travel has. Sometimes it can have a really negative impact, or it can have an impact which align of the interest of that community. And so we saw microfinance as a way to better provide that solution, if that makes sense.

Lyn Wineman:

I’m glad you said that, Chris, because I felt that as somebody who likes to travel, sometimes you go on this fabulous trip and you’re having a fabulous time, and then there’s glimpses of reality, and you’re looking around and you’re saying, “Is my experience here real or is it fake? I’m enjoying this, but am I helping the area that I’m in, or am I hurting? And what can I even do to help?” I mean, is that a real concern for travelers?

Chris Baker:

Yeah. I think that’s where… I mean, most travelers should go to a place that is fundamentally different than their own day-to-day experience are going to have those feelings. And I think what our job is that link between the traveler and the communities where these travel services are being provided is first it’s really about building a supply chain that aligns with a particular set of values. So looking at how do we think about who we hire, lodges that we work with, providers that we work with to really do the due diligence that every traveler, if they had to do on their own, be really inefficient. We want, as travelers, to have the most travel experience aligned with our principles and our values, but we also want to be able to do it pretty conveniently and easily. And so that’s what we provide in terms of what the mechanics of the trip.

So we guide, we build itineraries, and we build experiences around those principles’ kind of our supplier selection criteria and how we do that, our supply chain. But then it’s also about the mindset that you can create through travel as well. That same experience, you show up and you’re discombobulated and unsure of everything. That’s a really perfect place to start learning from. And that’s what we see for the value of travel for the traveler. Maybe they don’t think about whenever they’re just planning their trip, but inevitably ends up being the most valuable thing that they talk about at the end of their trip is what they’ve learned, connections they’ve made, understandings that they’ve been able to take away from being uncomfortable in the place. We try to do both of those things, but I think that feeling is really very common. I think that’s where most travelers are whenever they step off the plane and start that experience.

Lyn Wineman:

And you’re just wondering, what am I stepping into here? That is a good place to learn from. So thinking back, Chris, 12 years ago when you founded the company, do you remember the first expedition? Where did you go, and what was it like, and did anything unexpected happen or did it all just go perfectly?

Chris Baker:

Yeah. I definitely remember it. It was in Nepal, that’s where the company started. So my background had been living and working in Nepal, and so that’s where this initial concept developed. And yeah, our first trip was absolute disaster. We’d spend months training guides, and scouting these routes, and getting everything ready. And the first sign that we probably didn’t have all of our stuff together was the trip happened to straddle the end of February, and we had not anticipated that it was a leap year.

Lyn Wineman:

Oh, there was an extra day.

Chris Baker:

Today in the middle of the itinerary. We realized on day one of the trip. And so right out of day I was like, “Oh, we’re not prepared for this yet.” We scrambled and we found lodging, but it was a good signal for where we’re at in the process. But we had an understanding of travelers. We knew that this was new for us, nobody likes a new travel company, it’s not an appealing trait, but we learned really quickly, and we were able to really quickly dial those things in, provide really great experiences for clients. But the first trip was definitely a little rocky.

Lyn Wineman:

So, Chris, I’ve been looking at your website and it’s Ecuador, Everest, Kilimanjaro, Bolivia, Brazil. I mean, as I’m looking through this list, what kind of trip should I take? How do you decide?

Chris Baker:

Yes. I think one of the things we try to do when we work with travelers who are planning our first trip is really asking, what is the purpose of the trip? And I think that’s sometimes the question we don’t ask whenever we travel, but sometimes the purpose of a trip is connection. Sometimes it’s disconnection, sometimes it’s relaxation, sometimes it’s physical challenge. So it depends on what that motivating factor is.

Lyn Wineman:

That’s a great first question. What is the purpose of the trip? Usually, for me it’s disconnection and mild adventure.

Chris Baker:

Yeah. Yeah. So I think our walking circuits, that’s kind of our bread and butter, the OneSeed experience. We talked about this a lot over the years. What makes a OneSeed trip? And for me, a continuous walking circuit where you’re being given access to a place or particular communities that are otherwise not accessible by road. So using the Himalayas for example, most of the country of Nepal, to get to, you got to do some walking. And so moment that you are able to get off the road and start using your legs and doing these longer walking circuits, you just see an experience part of the country that’s completely invisible to where the road network is. So I think our walking trips really provide that possibility to gain access to a place that you wouldn’t otherwise see to disconnect. We love whenever all the bars and the cell phones disappear.

Lyn Wineman:

Oh, yeah. That is the best. You cannot get ahold of me. I cannot get ahold of you. I might as well just put that phone away because it is not helping me here, and just enjoy everything around you.

Chris Baker:

Exactly. And then the pace of walking forces you to connect in the places you’re passing through. So a lot of our trips here, walking circuits through towns and villages, and the entire supply chain of this experience is really visible to you along the way. So you’re walking and you’re eating a meal in the kitchen of a family who’s preparing it for you, you’re staying in the lodge, it’s room by a family. And so that’s the typical OneSeed experience is you’re away from your phone, you’re moving your legs, you’re connecting really directly with all of our suppliers along the way. And then you’re also pushing yourself. The part that’s variable is probably the exertion level. We’ve got everything from no matter what you’re going to be walking, but we have some of our big summit trips, and then we have more circuit trips that are really about moving through a place rather than just up and down.

Lyn Wineman:

Up and down. That’s fantastic. So I read that you like to order haircuts in different languages, so I’m wondering if you’ve gotten some weird haircuts over time?

Chris Baker:

Absolutely. I probably could use a haircut right now. Recently, less travel. No, I love walking into a barbershop in a country that I’m visiting and pantomiming my way into a haircut and seeing what happens. There’s a lot to work with, and usually after spending some time in the mountains and coming back down there’s a lot to work with. So yeah, pretty funny looking haircuts. But I like it because you just have to submit, and it’s a style of travel that I like as well. It’s just being okay with whatever happens and inevitably you end up becoming a source of entertainment for the people.

Lyn Wineman:

The photos are very memorable from the trips when that happens. So tell me, Chris, about a favorite trip. Is there a place that you’ve been, that you’re just like, “This is the best?”

Chris Baker:

Yeah. I mean I think for me it’s always whatever we’re working on, it’s whatever. In our expeditions, we run with our travelers, but preceding all those, our scouting trips, and scouting trips are what I get the biggest kick out of because it’s really just pure discovery. You’re out there, you’re starting to think about how you want to design the experience for the traveler. You’re starting to think about where those hidden gems along the way are, the things that you want to step away from the standard route for the providers that you want to pull into that experience, the lodge owners, the food you’re eating. So for me, a scouting trips are always the best. Every couple of years we get together our staff from different countries all over the world and we’ll do a trip together, and those are always really special. So that-

Lyn Wineman:

Oh, wow. Yeah.

Chris Baker:

The last one we did was a river trip in Utah, and Colorado with staff from Chile, Peru, Tanzania, all over the world coming in and having that experience together. So for me it’s whatever’s new and what we’re working on, but I think the Himalayas will always be a special spot because that’s where we started.

Lyn Wineman:

Yeah. Yeah, that all sounds amazing. All right. I love talking about the travel, but let’s also talk about the other side of your business. So you’ve talked about giving back the 10% of all trips to local communities through the loan program. How do you choose who to give the loans to? And I’m curious, is there any kind of red tape you have to cut through? What are the restrictions that you come across in that type of thing?

Chris Baker:

Yeah. So that’s a question we get a lot. And the short answer is everything that we do is dependent on having really great nonprofit partners in countries we are in right now.

Lyn Wineman:

That’s a great idea. Yeah. So you’re not just meeting people and handing out loans, you have partners that you’re working through and they’re helping you in the communities. That makes a lot of sense to me.

Chris Baker:

Exactly. So my background was working as a fellow with Kiva, which is a lending platform based out of San Francisco. And what they do is they enable individuals from all over the world to underwrite loans for borrowers all over the world. And then they’re underwritten, or they’re mediated and underwritten, ultimately by local microfinance institutions. And so those microfinance institutions are regulated in the countries where they operate. They’re usually treated with some of the same lending restrictions and expectations of small banks. So typically, they’re called financial intermediary NGOs. That just means that they have some lending authority, the ability to make loans, charge interest on those and administer those loans. And so that’s who we always work through in the countries where we operate. But then, what that looks like for the borrower that receives a loan from one of those microfinance institutions is can you use, Nepal, for an example, the borrowers will go and typically sign collectively shared liability loan.

So usually, the problem that microfinance is working to solve in micro loans credit in particularly here, is individuals who don’t have access to collateral that need access to capital. And they don’t have collateral, again, switch to borrow, but what they do have are strong social ties in the communities where they live, and so shared liability is typically the solution for that. In a place like Nepal where a borrowing group comes together, and then the individual value or approval of the loan is determined within that borrowing group. So the neighbors and community members who are basically co-signing on that loan evaluate the worthiness of that loan recipient and the loan purpose. And then the loan is dispersed and then paid back over retainment period. For our loans, it’s anywhere from usually one to three years. It’s the loan cycle.

Lyn Wineman:

Got it. You really have unique experience. You’re probably one of the few people in the world that has this kind of international microlending experience plus travel experience. And I love hearing how people’s paths come together to do these unique things. So our companies met at a B Corps conference because OneSeed Expeditions and KidGlov are both certified B Corps. I’m curious what led you down the path of becoming a B Corp and what was that experience, the certification experience like for you?

Chris Baker:

Yeah. So we’re just coming up on our third year. So we’re re-certifying right now.

Lyn Wineman:

Congratulations, by the way.

Chris Baker:

So, a couple things to submit this month. We should be-

Lyn Wineman:

Oh, that’s true. That congratulations might be premature. I have no doubt that you are going to be fantastic with your re-certification.

Chris Baker:

Yeah. B Corp for us was a really great way to articulate and codify a lot of what we were already doing. So the initial model for OneSeed it’s always been a social enterprise model from the very beginning. So I think in a lot of ways that helped us in terms of simplicity. Business itself was structured so that the two parts of what we do support each other, the travel side of what we do provides the capital for the lending, and the lending activities that we do provide what travelers are looking for, which is being able to provide benefit in the places they’re traveling to. So those things have always been really well aligned for us and has made… I think in a lot of ways, for social enterprise, you need those two things to be well aligned if they’re intention or if one is a tradeoff for the other, it doesn’t work over the long term.

And so when it came time to pursue the B Corp certification, it was much more about just taking what we were doing and really giving it some teeth, like owning it in terms of our policies, operating manuals, employee handbooks, doing all the things that our best practices we should be doing anyway, and really committing to that in writing. And for us, it was looking at our overall model. That was probably the easiest part because we were already had that social enterprise model built in from the beginning.

The next was then looking at, I think, the part of our business that we undervalued the most prior to B Corp was our supply chain, and really thinking about how purchasing decisions, especially in travel, are so impactful because you’re usually working with tons and tons of really small direct providers. And that’s both a challenge, but it’s also an incredible opportunity to be able to direct resources to the types of operations and the types of partners that align with your principles. That’s a real luxury we have as a travel business because you’re putting those things together with every single trip. And then the third part was really looking at play protections and the commitments that we make to our team. And I think that part was probably the most important for what then came next. We certified in January 2020, and by March 15th of that year, our whole world had shut down.

Lyn Wineman:

Oh, yeah. What was that like, Chris? I mean here you had just come through this rigorous process. I have said many times the B Corp certification is rigorous, but worth it, right? For KidGlov, it helped us do exactly, you said that so well, it helped us articulate and codify. And then there were a few areas where it made us better because we said, “Wow, we’ve never thought about that. We should really think about that and make some decisions.” But then you went through the process, your travel company, the world shuts down, and travel essentially stops, right? What was that like for you?

Chris Baker:

It was awful. I mean, we had set… I believe it was March 15th was the day of our… It was going to be our B-day party, our B Corp certification.

Lyn Wineman:

Oh, on that day. Wow.

Chris Baker:

Inviting folks and getting ready to celebrate. It’d been 10 years for us in business. And then the B Corp certification was the part of that process for us, just really recommitting to what we do. And so we’re planning to this party, and then we’re like, “This party’s probably not going to happen.” This party is not going to happen, our business is completely gone in two weeks. And so the immediate effects where we had travelers out on the trail as borders were shutting down and flights were canceling, so we were just trying to get people off the trail and back. And that was when… I mean it was just hours, countries were shutting down, and people were getting shuttled around everywhere. That was the immediate, and we worked really hard to solve for that. And then just sales went to zero, basically our sales were more or less zero for 14 months. It was brutal.

Lyn Wineman:

Wow. I’m getting heart palpitations. It hit us hard as a marketing agency, it hit us hard, but not for very long, things as soon as PPP loans started going, our world came back and we were able to work virtually. You weren’t able to do that.

Chris Baker:

Yeah. And for us it was because a 100% of our trips were international. And when borders closed, there wasn’t even an option. There was zero demand, but there was also inability to operate, and things gradually opened up, but it was about 14 months until things there was truly a path forward to be able to do sales again. And so there’s no budgeting or pivoting out of zero revenue.

Lyn Wineman:

Right. Right. You can’t crunch the numbers when there’s no numbers to crunch.

Chris Baker:

Yeah. So we had to make really, really difficult decisions as a team, and had to make those really transparently collectively. What B Corp did for us, it didn’t solve any of the objective reality of having no revenue and no clear path forward. But what it did do for us was it had given us several months, most of the preceding year, really having a lot of those deep conversations about what is our purpose? What are our roles as stakeholders in this process? Who do we serve? What is our mission here? So we’re primed to think pretty deeply about what it was we do and why. And so when the decision to… We immediately, all of us went on furlough around the world. So all of our country directors and staff in the US, we did a big GoFundMe. All of our past travelers ended up being a pretty incredible insurance policy.

Lyn Wineman:

That says a lot. Wow.

Chris Baker:

We were able to do a GoFundMe for all of our local guides and places that we operate. Now, that was when we thought that we just needed to get to September or-

Lyn Wineman:

Right. It was going to be a few months or a few weeks. Yeah.

Chris Baker:

So that was the first stage. And then we just rode waves of hope, we did all the things, we did the key, we got loans, we had hope, and then Delta hit us again. So it was a lot of uncertainty. We worked it part-time for significant chunks of that. But what we were able to do, I think really well as a team was just communicate really clearly. I felt my responsibility not necessarily to have all the answers because, again, at zero revenue, the answers are really limited, mostly bad.

But to try to be really clear about our rationale, what our priorities were as we got through that, and what that meant for our team was lots of uncertainty about employment and furloughs and what we rode through it. And when we got out on the other side of it, but we never knew how long it was going to be. But that B Corp structure really gave us guardrails for decision making. We were clear about, like here what our non-negotiables are, here’s what our priorities are. And it also gave us, I think, structure for everyone to have a voice in that process, and to understand what the commitments were as a team to each other as well.

Lyn Wineman:

Yeah. Chris, first of all, I admire you for what you went through and for persevering and being where you are today, which makes me even more likely to get on your website and book a vacation. I’m talking to my husband tonight just so you know, but I think your reference to B Corp there as well. I feel a lot of the same way. And I’ve talked to a number of founders and leaders who are in B Corp who went into it from the standpoint of having that certification and come out the other side as just a better company, a better organization with a better structure, a more thoughtful approach. And I think also almost a network or family of other organizations that you can reach to and say, “Hey, I’m going through this. What are you guys going through?” And being out there to help one another versus compete, which I think is a really neat thing too. So after hearing about all of that, I’m really curious about what’s next for OneSeed Expeditions, Chris? What do you have on the future?

Chris Baker:

Yeah. So this last year or year and a half has been about just getting back to full strength. And so we’re more or less at where we were before the pandemic in terms of our team and running trips. So this past year has just been really restoring and that’s felt great and now we’re finally able to look forward again. That’s been really exciting. So a couple of things in the works we’re looking to bring on 10 new destinations in the next 18 months.

Lyn Wineman:

Did you just say 10 new destinations?

Chris Baker:

Yeah.

Lyn Wineman:

Cool.

Chris Baker:

So one of the things we tried to do during the last couple years is really thinking about where do we want to be? Where do we want to ultimately expand to and be able to offer really great trips in these new destinations. We’ve got about 10 new spots we’re going to be rolling out in the next coming year. And then we also have a program called OneSeed Labs, which is a program that we started just before the pandemic, and it’s really focused on high school students. And so when COVID happened, it was the first thing to get shut down and nobody was traveling in schools, were definitely not doing large class trips.

Lyn Wineman:

Oh gosh. No.

Chris Baker:

But the model for OneSeed Labs is working with high school students and using travel as a way to think creatively and entrepreneurially about really difficult problems but coming from different perspectives. So in the same way that One Seed Expeditions was built to try to solve that mismatch in terms of what adventure travelers want whenever they go to a place and what’s often available to them. OneSeed Labs is trying to do the same thing but for the high school learning trip. So a lot of times that high school learning trip is built around a service component. And the idea is, again, I did this as an 18-year-old myself. You fly around the world to another place and show up and provide some sort of good, but it’s not necessarily the most genuine or authentic value that you can bring to that situation.

We looked at high school travel and these learning trips, and said, “How can we do this better?” And for us, we try to take the best part about travel, which is that disorientation the experience of being really unfamiliar and uncomfortable in a place at a starting point for learning and deep learning that can come from that place of humility. I’m new in this place and everything is uncertain and I’m thinking about everything in a new way, and then working with entrepreneurs in those locations and we have a really great insight there and access to the work that we’ve done, the microfinance investments that we’ve supported over the years. So how to connect students with really inspiring entrepreneurs in the places where we operate to learn basic design thinking and problem-solving skills in a really unfamiliar context, but using that experience of travel to prime the student for that type of learning.

Lyn Wineman:

I love that. I love that. So when that comes online, that will be on your website as well?

Chris Baker:

Yeah. So that’ll be under OneSeed Innovation Labs, and that will be… We’re looking at launching, we originally had three countries rolling out and working with high schools now to start onboarding that again.

Lyn Wineman:

That’s fantastic. I love that, that is coming back on board. So talk to me a little bit, I’d love to hear your perspective on the need for creative thinkers and doers in the world. You referenced the importance of creative thinking a bit earlier.

Chris Baker:

Yeah. I mean, I think specifically within the context of travel, so many insights and sparks of creativity come from being uncomfortable and being in unfamiliar places, and travel is just such a great way to facilitate that. I’ve got two kids, and we have been fortunate enough to be able to travel with them a lot over the years, and the ability for travel to stop them in their tracks and make them really confused really quickly about the most mundane things. Whether it’s wondering like, “Why does this work like this? Or why is this eaten this way here? Why does this appear really confusing to me?” There must be a good reason that this particular thing is happening in front of me.

And then just the conversations and the depth of learning that can come from that initial spark. So we see travel as just really important for driving that type of creativity, creating students, and travelers, and just people who can go forward and apply that in everything that they do. And I think for me, that’s ultimately what travel is about. It’s getting to slide into another perspective and another experience even for shorter periods of time. There’s a ton of value that come from that. But I don’t think we always think about whenever we think about, I want to go to this destination and see this beautiful thing – that discomfort in learning that come from that, or usually the thing that sticks and the thing that travelers actually come back and talk about and value.

Lyn Wineman:

Nice. So since you’ve just taken us on that path of discomfort leads to creativity, leads to a good outcome. I’m going to ask you a question that might make you uncomfortable. How about that?

Chris Baker:

Sure. Go for it.

Lyn Wineman:

Everybody who listens to Agency for Change knows my favorite question is to ask our guests for an original quote. Would you be willing to give me an original Chris Baker quote to inspire us?

Chris Baker:

I was thinking about this and how to express what’s important for us, and this isn’t necessarily original, but I think I would say vote with your wallet. We so often underestimate the ability to affect change and support the world that we want to be in through our purchasing decisions. And I think the more that we distance ourselves from that thinking or the more passive we are in the purchasing decisions we make, because as consumers, that’s how we interact with the world. That’s how we allocate value. That’s how we express what matters to us.

And when you realize that, you can really do some pretty powerful things. So whether as the individual consumer, you’re able to express what matters to you by working with companies, say, that preferring to work with a B Corp who’s committed to those values, and has expressed them, and has been able to verify them, or engaging with a place as a consumer and knowing that is how you express your values. And there are lots of other ways to express your values as well, expressing them in your beliefs, but the wallet really matters as well. And that’s how we value around in the world, and that’s what we see as our job is to try to align those things better through the work that we do.

Lyn Wineman:

Such a great point, Chris. And I’m actually seeing more and more studies come out that people are actually realizing that and they’re choosing to spend their money with brands who are making a positive difference, even choosing to work for companies or organizations that are making a positive difference. So I do think there’s an awakening to this power that everyone has with how they spend their resources and their time. So we’ve mentioned your website a couple of times, Chris, but what is the best way people who have listened, who want to find out about these great trips, who want to find out more about the microlending or your B Corp journey, how can they find out more about you?

Chris Baker:

So the best place to find us is oneseedexpeditions.com, find us also across all social as OneSeed Expeditions. And yeah, we try to really show what we do, and we are lucky to be back and traveling in all the places that we do. So we’re looking forward to really busy next year.

Lyn Wineman:

Yeah. I am crossing my fingers for you. That is fantastic. So, Chris, as we wrap up this great conversation, what is the most important thing that you would like to leave us with about the work that you’re doing?

Chris Baker:

I think I just never want to overstate the work that we’re doing. We’ve got a great model, and I think we have a great mission and set of principles we work towards, but we are a really small part of working towards the solutions and goals that we have. And so I think it’s important that we always state that as a company, but it’s also important for travelers or consumers in general to know that every company in the world doesn’t have to do everything. We’re comfortable in our small niche in what we do. We try to be a really, really great outfitter, and we tried to affect change and the work that we do through the OneSeed fund. And I don’t know if that’s inspiring or not, but that’s important to us as understanding what we actually do.

Lyn Wineman:

I think it’s fantastic, Chris. I love the niche that you have chosen. I love the focus that you have. And I just want to say thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule, your travel schedule, to have this conversation with us today.

Chris Baker:

Absolutely.

Announcer:

We hope you enjoyed today’s Agency for Change podcast. To hear all our interviews with those who are making a positive change in our communities, or to nominate a changemaker you’d love to hear from, visit KidGlov.com at K-I-D-G-L-O-V.com to get in touch. As always, if you like what you’ve heard today, be sure to rate, review, subscribe, and share. Thanks for listening, and we’ll see you next time.