January 3, 2022
Jay Wilkinson & Tawnya Starr
Jay Wilkinson:
It’s never too late to become who you want to be.
Announcer:
Welcome to Agency for Change, a podcast from KidGlov that brings you the stories of changemakers who are actively working to improve our communities. In every episode, we’ll meet with people who are making a lasting impact in the places we call home.
Lyn Wineman:
B-corporations, they’re new type of business that works towards affecting real change by addressing the challenges of today’s world. The process of becoming a B Corp is no small task for a company to undertake. In fact, KidGlov recently became a certified B Corp. And to celebrate, we’re sitting down with change makers at other B Corporations all over Nebraska, ones like Firespring, which was the very first in the state to achieve this designation. So stay tuned, because we have a great show for you today.
Lyn Wineman:
Hello everyone. And welcome back to another episode of Agency for Change Podcast. I’m Lyn Wineman, president of KidGlov. And today’s guests, I’m so excited to talk to are Jay Wilkinson, co-founder and CEO of Firespring, and Tawnya Star, co-founder and EVP of leadership development at Firespring. And if you aren’t familiar with their work, Firespring provides marketing design, printing and technology services. A lot of my favorite things there that allow businesses and nonprofits to prosper. Jay and Tawnya, I am so eager to talk to you today.
Tawnya Starr:
Well, thank you.
Jay Wilkinson:
We are excited as well.
Lyn Wineman:
Absolutely. So I have been looking forward to this all day. And Tawnya, let’s start off with you by taking a look at the Firespring of today. I know that your mission is to help businesses accomplish theirs. Can you talk more about what that looks like at Firespring? And how you are helping to elevate brands?
Tawnya Starr:
Yeah. Thank you for asking. Thank you for having us, Lyn. We just think the world of you. This is such an honor.
Tawnya Starr:
So Firespring today, we really are putting tremendous focus and energy in helping leadership teams, executive teams, companies from an inside out approach, is how we like to talk about that. And helping organizations, whether it’s for profit or nonprofit, identify their purpose, their culture, and their impact. There are so many organizations that want to do more, but they don’t know where to start.
Tawnya Starr:
So we are putting our intentionality in working with organizations that want to put emphasis on purpose. And we’re doing this through two primary areas. One is by working with teams to implement EOS, the Entrepreneurial Operating System, and also culture index. And EOS is a business framework that is designed for organizations to really identify what is their mission and then the traction in which to achieve it. And we come in as a team to really start to get them together and have this framework, which allows them to have consistency in the entire organization and then aligning right butts to the right seats.
Lyn Wineman:
Tawnya, I love that I have to give a plug for EOS because KidGlov is an EOS company and we-
Tawnya Starr:
Woo.
Lyn Wineman:
Yeah, right. What it did for us was it gave us a pause from focusing all the time on what our client work was. And it gave us a pause to focus on ourselves. But for anybody out there thinking about EOS, we grew 400% in the first four years.
Tawnya Starr:
Woo.
Lyn Wineman:
Right. And I mean, we started it as a small company, so it’s easier to grow like that, but I fully believe you could not do EOS properly without a mentor and a coach. So I think it’s great that you’re doing that. And then I could see how the culture index would just pair perfectly with that framework as well.
Tawnya Starr:
Yes. So, and speaking to… Because there are two things that have been instrumental in the trajectory of Firespring and really having impact. Well actually, there are three. Certified B Corp, implementing EOS, and the use of culture index. And so in the work that we’re doing with intentionality of helping other companies identify their purpose, their culture, and their impact with their team and the community, I decided a little over a year ago to spin out another company. So I am now a full time implementer of Culture Index. So we’ve got our Firespring team working with these companies to really get them entrenched in the EOS business framework, so they can also see an increase of 400%. That’s just amazing. And then I’m working with those executives and leadership teams in our community and multiple states in really helping them perpetuate the culture they’ve identified by identifying what are the inherent behaviors you need within this organization? What’s holding you back from achieving what you need to achieve? And let’s get the right butts in the right seats.
Lyn Wineman:
That’s amazing. I love how you have put together a lineup of services in these two companies that really will help businesses take off and live their mission in a better way. So I want to hop into a time machine for a moment, Jay. I read that by the time you graduated from college, you had already founded eight companies. Most of us will not even work for eight companies in our lifetime. You had founded eight companies. But in 1992, you started a business that would later become Firespring. When you look back on those early days, what strikes you as the biggest change? And what, if anything, is still the same?
Jay Wilkinson:
Everything has changed, but of course there are some things. The thing that comes to mind when I think about what is the same, when I was 15 years old, I got elected to serve on the student council of my school in North Platte, where I grew up. And as pennants, they said, “Okay, if you want to serve on the council next year, you have to go to leadership class.” And begrudgingly, I agreed to go to this four-day workshop for an organization called Launch Leadership. It had a different name at the time. And going to this workshop completely changed my life in every possible way. I learned how to be a servant leader. I went back to my school on fire, ready to make a difference.
Jay Wilkinson:
And there was a quotation that hung on the wall and I’ve had this hanging above my desk at work or somewhere ever since. It’s a Stephen Grellet quote. And it says, “I expect to pass through this world but once. Any good, therefore, that I can do or any kindness I can show, let me do it now. Let me not defer or neglect it, for I shall not pass this way again.” And I remember in the backseat of my mother’s car, she was driving me home from workshop. It was in eastern Nebraska, and it was a three and a half hour drive. In my grogginess, I remember thinking that someday, I want to start a company where this is the ethos. This is what it is all based on. And so that realization and that seed that was planted, it took a lot of those eight businesses, they were all miserable failures. I mean, the whole thing.
Lyn Wineman:
It’s the best way to learn though, isn’t it? Yeah.
Jay Wilkinson:
There is no better way to learn than by doing and by falling on your face. Right? But by the time I got to the Firespring phase and figured out some things, that was the ethos that kind of seeded the company. So B Corps didn’t exist yet. And certainly, by definition, purpose driven companies were not really a thing that people talked about, but we always aspired to be. So that’s the thing that has been consistent without question from the beginning to where we are now when you say, “What’s changed?” Let’s just say everything else has changed, especially in the last 18 months with work from home, work from the office and the dynamic of client and vendor relationships. It’s just such a different world now.
Lyn Wineman:
Jay, I’m so glad you shared that quote. And I tried to write it down as fast as I could, but I’m going to have to go look it up, but that’s a great quote. And to be honest with you, I can see that. We’ve been in the same region for quite a while. And I have watched Firespring grow from, I think you used to do commercials saying you were the friendly geek. Were you the friendly geek on those commercials?
Tawnya Starr:
Yeah.
Lyn Wineman:
I love those commercials and I still remember them today. I never thought of you as a geek though. I just want to say that out loud.
Tawnya Starr:
Well, a geek with social skills. He is not just an ordinary geek.
Lyn Wineman:
That was it.
Tawnya Starr:
He was an extraordinary geek.
Lyn Wineman:
That was it. You are. That was it. So let’s think back even, maybe not as far back. But in 2003, Firespring launched a series of tools and website solutions designed specifically for nonprofits. I think nonprofits all over the country use those websites, maybe all over the world. But let’s hear from you Tawnya. Can you talk to me about the importance nonprofits played in the business and how that led to the creation of these tools?
Tawnya Starr:
Yeah, so getting in that way back machine, when we started, when I moved to Nebraska to help get us started, I came from the printing industry. Jay came from the printing industry. Our initial software was designed for the printing industry and that’s who we targeted. And coming into 2001 and 2002, it became quickly apparent to us with our local market and the need for nonprofits being very involved in a philanthropic way to have impact in our community. That has always been a primary mission for Jay and I. And as we were creating the software for printing and then starting to really work with more and more nonprofits locally, quickly we realized that we had an opportunity to impact them by providing the software and the tools that could allow them to operate in the way of a for-profit, right. So trying to really help them have more intentionality to their mission so that they can achieve what they need to achieve. Lyn, from 2003 to today, we have thousands of clients that are in 12 countries. Or did we drop to 11? 11 or 12 countries.
Lyn Wineman:
That’s 11 or 12, both of those are amazing, amazing numbers.
Tawnya Starr:
And in this journey since 2003, it has been incredibly important to us to be intentional with how we serve our nonprofits, how we help them serve their mission, help them serve their community, regardless of what country they’re in, regardless of what state they’re in. And as we move into the B Corp status, really tying that together, which Jay, I don’t know if you want to add on in their area. Once we became the B Corp, what we’ve been able to do with our intentionality in serving our nonprofits.
Lyn Wineman:
Jay, do you want to add on to Tawnya’s comment? Or do you want me to go right into the next question about being a B Corp?
Jay Wilkinson:
I think they are certainly related, so we can go right into the B Corp.
Lyn Wineman:
The next question?
Jay Wilkinson:
Yeah.
Lyn Wineman:
All right. Sounds good. So Jay, let’s follow up on that. Firespring became a B Corp in 2014 and was Nebraska’s very first. And at that time, I think there were barely a thousand B Corps in the entire world. So I’m curious, how did you even hear about this framework and what attracted you to pursue B Corp certification at that time when no one else in Nebraska was in this process?
Jay Wilkinson:
Yeah, it was a 2011, 2012 in that timeframe. It was a difficult time for Tawnya and myself. My mother passed away in 2011 after a long battle with breast cancer. And it got us, especially me, into a really deeply thoughtful reflection state about contribution. What impact are we making? And life is short. And I remember pinning my dad down at Thanksgiving, probably Thanksgiving of 2013 actually, and asking him questions about what he wanted his legacy to be. And eventually he shut down my questioning and was laughing at me. “Why are asking me all these questions?” And he made it clear that he didn’t want a hospital named after him or a park. And I was processing at that time, like so many of us, someday we’ll save up enough money and we can do something amazing to honor my parents, my father, whatever, someday, someday, someday.
Jay Wilkinson:
And I came back from that discussion with him with this seed planted. Why are we waiting for someday? And started doing a little bit of research. And I went into my leadership team meeting that following Monday. And they kind of looked at me with that deer in the headlights look like, “oh, Jay went to a conference and everything’s going to change.” Which happened all the time back in those days.
Lyn Wineman:
I know that look.
Jay Wilkinson:
Yes. And I said, “I’ve been researching. I found this thing called certified B Corps. And I want us to look into becoming one.” And didn’t really know what it was going to mean at that point in time. But we started to pursue it, learned about legislation that was being considered in other states, called benefit corporation legislation. Reached out to a couple of state senators and said, “Hey, we should be looking at this in Nebraska.” And so we ended up kind of helping shepherd that process of getting legislation passed in Nebraska to become a state that allocated for benefit corporation legislation. There are now 37 states that have passed legislation. And we became a certified B Corp on the same day that benefit corporation legislation became effective in the state of Nebraska. We went down and handed our application in over the counter on the day it was legally ratified.
Jay Wilkinson:
And it’s changed everything about how we think and operate as an organization. And going back full circle to your question, while serving nonprofit organizations is certainly part of philanthropy and every business needs to know how they can help nonprofits in their community, because it helps the fabric of that community become better. It’s where we really double down in every aspect on how to become the kind of company that would be around for a hundred years. It’s in that process that we made a commitment to be an evergreen company, which for us means that we have to reinvent ourselves every five to seven years. Because a company that does X, Y and Z for 20 years is not going to still be in business in 20 years, unless they’re also doing A, B and C. It’s something that we’re very mindful about.
Jay Wilkinson:
And so it’s changed the way we think about everything and serving nonprofits is the fundamental thing helps us wake up every morning and excited to deliver on a mission that is making impact all over the world. And as Tawnya said, in on five continents and in all 50 states, we have clients every day that use our products and services to help elevate their mission.
Lyn Wineman:
That’s amazing.
Jay Wilkinson:
We’re really proud of that.
Lyn Wineman:
Jay. I wonder if that day that you took that application and handed it across the counter, I know you were thinking of your company and your people and all of the organizations you would serve. I wonder if you realized what a role model you and Firespring would be for those of us that later followed the B Corp path. We’ve recently talked with Justin Nabity at Physicians Thrive and Tammy and Brandon Day at Daycos and our friends at SeaChange who are in the B Corp process and helping other companies. They all talk about how you and Tawnya really inspired them. So I have to thank you for that on behalf of the rest of us. And I’d love for you to dive in a little bit more. And maybe Tawnya, this question is for you. How did becoming a B Corp help level up the business, so to speak? What kind of changes did it spur?
Tawnya Starr:
Yeah, that’s an excellent question because, well, we thought we were doing a great job. We’ve always prided ourselves on being on the forefront in philosophies and practices in the way we do business and the way we work with our team members. But as we all know, we don’t know what we don’t know.
Tawnya Starr:
And going through the process of B Corp certification, it really allowed us to formalize, to measure. To really quantify what we were doing and where we had room for improvement as it related to the business operation, as well as the impact and the responsibility as a B Corp. That which can be measured, can be managed. And that is where I really feel we were able to level up.
Tawnya Starr:
So from the place of where we started, we were really intentional holistically. But where I feel this process helped us level up is in two primary areas. One environmental and the other, the internal side. So in the environmental component, moving to, we are at 95% recycled materials coming out of our printing facility.
Lyn Wineman:
Congratulations.
Tawnya Starr:
That is monumental, being so conscientious to waste. And also when we work with clients, recommending recycled products to be used in the printing process. Then moving to plant-based inks in the presses and what we’re using, and just being so much more intentional with our practices and being mindful of the planet in which we live. And we were proud where we were and we had great room for improvement. So where we have come today to be able to say that over 95% of our waste is recycled, the majority of our print work is done with plant-based inks is really powerful.
Tawnya Starr:
But then also on the internal side and moving to a place of gender representation on our board, our leadership and throughout the organization. It happens either through default or it happens by design. So putting a lot of intentionality into the diversification has really helped us level up in the contributions.
Tawnya Starr:
And then the other area in our vacation policy, moving to an unlimited vacation policy within Firespring, but doing it in the right way. There are so many companies that have unlimited vacation policy. And their employees, if we were to go and ask for survey, they feel like they’re working more than they’ve ever worked before because the company stance as an unlimited vacation policy. We put an intentionality into setting a standard. If you have an unlimited vacation policy, it is our responsibility as leaders and mentors in the organization to make sure that our team members are taking that time, that they have the opportunity to use it. So we do a quarterly check-in to make sure that each individual within our organization feels that they’re getting the time that they need and to take. And we encourage that and promote that and push them. We feel it makes them healthier, more vibrant, viable contributors to the purpose that we live.
Tawnya Starr:
There are so many other areas, but those are the ones because we can measure that. And that which we can measure, we can manage.
Lyn Wineman:
Yeah, yeah. Tawnya, there you go again, blazing a trail for the rest of us. Those are all amazing things. And I’m going to say we had a similar experience, in that we felt like we were a good company. This should be a piece of cake. You’re laughing because I also have been very loudly on record saying, “This is a rigorous process.” But I’m glad it’s a rigorous process because it really is truly a process that does make you better. And I know that Firespring, every time you re-certify, you do it at a higher and higher and higher level, which I think is also very, very admirable.
Lyn Wineman:
I want to switch gears just a little bit, because since we’re in the same region and I’m aware of your work, I get to witness what’s going on at the company. I know that you do a lot of really great things for the community and that you give back. And you’ve got a program called the Power of 3 program. Jay, can you walk me through how this program works and what the impact of that has been on the community?
Jay Wilkinson:
Yeah, it’s a way of taking the promise, the commitment we’ve made as a B Corporation and putting it into a tangible manifestation of how we execute on it. We call it our Power of 3 because we give 1% of our top line revenue, our profit, back to the nonprofits in our communities. 2% of our products and services, so that’s in-kind contributions. And then 3% of our people, and that’s accomplished by having every full-time team member in our organization be required to go out into the community and volunteer, to give back to the community in a meaningful way. And it’s important that those people are volunteering for things that they are passionate about, that light them up. It’s not us telling them, “Hey, go work this or go do that.” They get to choose the way that they can make impact in the communities.
Jay Wilkinson:
And we track it. And as Tawnya was saying, because we have learned how important that is. In 2021, as we finished this last year, again, nearly $3 million in impact in the local community, as a result of the gifts, both of our profits, our products, and our people back, to the community. It’s something we really love doing.
Lyn Wineman:
That’s a great program. Tawnya, any additional thoughts on that program?
Tawnya Starr:
No, Jay articulates it so well. And he’s so passionate and he just lights up when he speaks of the Power of 3 program. And the only thing I would add is the simplicity of the framework. The manifestation of it really makes it easier for team members to embrace it. I was going to say, “Get wrapped around it.” They embrace it, really embrace it and understand what they’re a part of.
Lyn Wineman:
Yeah. And you know what? Since most people will just be able to hear us and not see Jay, I am going to confirm Jay did really light up while he was talking about that. Ear to ear smile, so that was fantastic. So I want to take this a step further. Jay, you’ve given a number of talks on the importance of company culture, including a TEDx Lincoln talk. And Firespring has consistently been recognized as one of the best places to work. What’s the secret sauce of creating a great company culture?
Jay Wilkinson:
Well, I’m hoping that’s what you’re going to share with us today because in all honesty, there is no secret sauce because it’s different for every company. It’s different for every group of people. If there is a secret sauce, it’s intention. It’s vulnerability. And I would say openness to changing, learning, evolving as you go. And I’ll say flat out right now, if somebody were to say to me, “Hey, you guys have such a great culture.” Tawnya and I would look at each other and say, “Well right now, based on what’s going on with the pandemic, the great resignation of 2021-2022, people moving about, we have so much work to do.”
Jay Wilkinson:
We have so much to learn, so much to figure out. I wouldn’t feel confident, comfortable, even in the east little bit holding what we have right now up as a great example of culture. Because as we ebb and flow and go kind of up and down in terms of when we’re doing better and not doing as well, we’re in a low spot right now. And our team members feel disconnected because they’re working from home. We only have around 25% of our people into the building every day, or even a couple of times a week. And it’s really hard, but I will say something that we’ve learned along the way at a big part of it is exactly what I’ve just shared. It’s the minute anybody ever thinks that they’ve got it figured out, is the moment they die on the vine.
Lyn Wineman:
This is so right.
Jay Wilkinson:
We have to be always, always charging forward, trying to find a better way. If you go around Firespring, you see we have this mantra everywhere. We apply it to the work that we do with our clients, as well as all of the internal processes and things like culture. “Find a better way.” We’re always trying to figure out how to improve and do it better.
Jay Wilkinson:
Tawnya and I did a project a couple years ago. You mentioned we were featured in Inc. as one of the 50 best places to work, which again, it’s a promotional thing. We don’t hold that up in any way and say, “Wow, look at us.” So it’s quite the opposite. There’s a lot of humility that goes into that kind of thing. And you realize that’s a lot to live up to. But we started the process of having discussions because I got asked at a conference once, “What’s the future of culture going to be? Where is it going to be in a couple of years?” After I did a speech, and I said, “I have no idea, but let’s see if we can ask a lot of people.” And we started to call, and we ended up over the course of three years, we conducted over a thousand interviews with leaders.
Lyn Wineman:
Wow.
Jay Wilkinson:
Of purpose driven businesses. And that actually is what created the seed for what became the Do More Good Movement. That’s why we ended up creating the Do More Good Movement. Those interviews enlightened us in so many ways around the things that all of those companies had in common, around what they were and were not focused on. And it kind of led us into this realization that this is not something that only we were struggling with, that it’s rampant. It’s everywhere across the United States, across the world, for that matter.
Lyn Wineman:
So I love that again. And Jay, I should have told you the secret in the beginning. If you were expecting my recipe for the secret sauce, everybody knows, who knows me that I’m the world’s worst person at following recipes. So not going to be the person to share, but I think you’ve said a lot of great things there. And I’m actually interested then too, you’ve talked about company culture. We’ve talked about company culture. How does that intersect with the Do More Good Movement and the Do More Good Conference that I think, are you holding another one this May?
Jay Wilkinson:
Yeah. In May, we’re doing an educational event around heart-centered leadership. And we’re really excited for it.
Lyn Wineman:
Very good.
Jay Wilkinson:
It’ll be on May 4th of 2022.
Lyn Wineman:
May 4th, 2022, may the fourth be with you.
Jay Wilkinson:
May the fourth be with you.
Lyn Wineman:
That’s how we’re all going to remember that, right. So, all right. This is my favorite question from every podcast. And I’m going to ask you each this question because I am so inspired by motivational quotes. And Jay, you told us how, as a young man, you were inspired by a motivational quote. I would like an original Jay Wilkinson and Tawnya Star quote to inspire our listeners. So Jay, let’s start with you and then we’ll go to Tawnya.
Jay Wilkinson:
Okay. Well, the thing that I believe is that it’s never too late to become who you want to be. And it’s such an important thing for people that have… There are so many stories around whatever Dolly Parton in her age and Lucille Ball didn’t really become famous until she was in her thirties. And that’s in the acting business. That’s almost impossible. On and on, Colonel Sanders, whatever all the stories. When he started his business in his sixties. It’s never too late to become the best version of yourself. And I think so often people get caught up in the day to day and they see the success of people around them and they get just hammered down and decide that it’s too late and they give up. But it’s never too late.
Lyn Wineman:
That’s beautiful, beautiful. Tawnya, how about you?
Tawnya Starr:
All right, Lyn. I can’t do just one. I have to do two.
Lyn Wineman:
I love that bonus. It’s a bonus.
Tawnya Starr:
My motto in life, ask for what you want or take what you get.
Lyn Wineman:
Yeah. That’s a really good one, yeah.
Tawnya Starr:
Ask for what you want or take what you get.
Lyn Wineman:
Especially as a woman, I think. Tawnya, I think that it’s really a good quote to embolden, I think, young women and older women, right, to know that that is not only okay, but advised. Yeah.
Tawnya Starr:
Absolutely.
Lyn Wineman:
Great.
Tawnya Starr:
What’s the worst that can happen? Someone says, “No”
Lyn Wineman:
That’s right.
Tawnya Starr:
But if we don’t ask, we don’t know. And then this next one falls in line with where I am professionally and working with executives and leaders and teams, and it’s something I’m incredibly passionate about. And that is, every human being deserves and has the right to do what they love to do and are great at every day, unapologetically.
Lyn Wineman:
Oh, wow. Jay, you married a very smart woman.
Jay Wilkinson:
Oh, I know.
Lyn Wineman:
Both of you. Those are three fantastic, fantastic quotes. So this has been so much fun talking to the two of you. And Jay, for our listeners who would like to learn more about Firespring or perhaps the Do More Good Conference, how can they find out more information?
Jay Wilkinson:
Yeah. You can certainly find Firespring just at firespring.com or all over social media. But I would encourage people to go learn more about the Do More Good Movement.
Lyn Wineman:
Okay.
Jay Wilkinson:
Which you can learn more about at domoregood.com. Lots of exciting things coming up there.
Lyn Wineman:
Thank you for that. Both of those URLs are easy to remember, but we’ll have them both in the show notes. And as we wrap up this great conversation today, what is the most important thing that you would like our listeners to remember about out the work that you’re doing? And Tawnya, let’s go to you for that one.
Tawnya Starr:
I feel the most important thing about the work that we are doing is that we have an opportunity every day in every way to make an intentional, conscientious decision to have impact on each and every individual whose lives we touch, whether it’s professionally or personally.
Lyn Wineman:
That’s great. Such a great thing too, for this particular time when we’re still in this strange COVID-19 world, right. And everybody just needs a little extra grace. That is lovely.
Tawnya Starr:
Space and grace. Space and grace, baby.
Lyn Wineman:
I love it. I love it, Jay and Tawnya, I fully believe the world needs more people like you. Thank you for taking time to visit with me today.
Jay Wilkinson:
Thank you, Lyn. We love and adore you.
Tawnya Starr:
Thank you so much, Lyn. You’re amazing.
Lyn Wineman:
I feel the same. I feel the same. Thank you both so much.
Announcer:
We hope you enjoyed today’s Agency for Change podcast. To hear all our interviews with those who are making a positive change in our communities, or to nominate a changemaker you’d love to hear from, visit KidGlov.com at K-I-D-G-L-O-V.com to get in touch. As always, if you like what you’ve heard today, be sure to rate, review, subscribe, and share. Thanks for listening, and we’ll see you next time.