Agency for Change – Kelley Peterson, Vice President: Nonprofit Creative Director of KidGlov » KidGlov

Announcer
Welcome to Agency for Change, the podcast that brings you the stories of people creating positive change in the world. We explore what inspires these changemakers, the work they’re doing, and how they share their message. Each of us can play a part in change, and these are the people who show us how.

Lyn Wineman
Hello everyone. This is Lyn Wineman from KidGlov. Welcome to another episode of the Agency for Change podcast. Today’s episode is a special treat because I get to talk with my friend and coworker, Kelley Peterson. As KidGlov’s nonprofit creative director, Kelley is experienced in brand creation and brand advancement, she’s played her creative hand in developing and refreshing a multitude of purpose-driven brands and has a track record of turning messages into movements. How are you today, Kelley?

Kelley Peterson
I’m doing great, Lyn. Thanks for having me.

Lyn Wineman
It is just fun to have this experience to talk to you in this way. And I know we’ve shared about KidGlov on the podcast in the past, but would you start by telling people more specifically your role at KidGlov?

Kelley Peterson
Yes, I am the vice president of nonprofit at KidGlov. And what that allows me to do is work with incredible organizations that are changing the world.

Lyn Wineman
That’s fantastic. That’s exactly why I wanted to talk to you on this podcast, because you’ve really focused your creative talents on the nonprofit industry for over 20 years now. And I’m just curious, how did you get involved on this path? Did young eight-year-old Kelley say, “I want to work in advertising for nonprofits”? Or was it something you happened upon?

Kelley Peterson
Eight-year-old Kelley wanted to be just like her mom. My mom wasn’t a marketer. I remember she got her master’s degree in psychology and she did all kinds of human service work. But more so than that, she was just a community leader that did philanthropy. So, it was as if she always was part of the Junior League or doing something for a great organization. I remember one of her biggest talents was being a self-taught sculptor.

Kelley Peterson
And she would like many of the art projects that we see today where they will do light bulbs around town or hearts around town. She was always fundraising through art. She was doing a project for the symphony, I remember when I was a young girl, where she used her art to raise money and the theme was Alice in Wonderland. And I’ll just remember that forever. And those connections of, wow, she did all of that work and then gave it away as an art piece to raise money, so it could also to do something else. Part of getting her degree was working at an organization called Child Guidance Center. So she was also a therapist. She always had kids in her heart and working with kids that didn’t have what I had.

Lyn Wineman
Wow. I’ve heard you talk of your mom often, and I know that she had an important impact on your life and that she was an amazing lady. I think that’s really neat. So, she was a great example then, using creativity to impact change. Oh my goodness. And that’s almost exactly what you do now, but maybe not through sculpture necessarily, but through creative concepts and words.

Kelley Peterson
Yes. Exactly. I just talked with someone earlier today and they had a great quote and they said, “Feelings are attached to words.” And I just thought, exactly. So when you’re trying to get someone to give to an organization or change a behavior or do something, take an action in any way, you do it through words. Visuals also are hugely important, but words truly do have meaning.

Lyn Wineman
That leads into this next question that I have for you. Because even though we both work at KidGlov and we’ve both worked in advertising for years, I’ve been more on the business and strategic side and you’ve been more on the creative side. And while those mesh often, one of the number one questions I get from clients is, how does the creative team come up with these amazing ideas? Can you give us some insight into that process and how that works?

Kelley Peterson
I absolutely can, but I’m going to start by saying you are one of the most creative people I know.

Lyn Wineman
I don’t know, Kelley, but thank you for that.

Kelley Peterson
I also think that creativity is problem solving. It is strategy first and foremost. So yes, creatives get to have color and words and great palettes and all of those things, but it comes to, “How can we solve their problem or make a connection between two people?” I already talked about my mother, but my father is an architect.

Kelley Peterson
And so when you have a fine artist who also has a crazy organization brain like my mom and then another artist and crazy organization brain like my dad does being an architect, I think there’s some piece of creativity that is innate, that I think I was born with it. I always tease, I think I grew up with a carton of Crayolas in my crib. But I do think that when you have relationships or you’re at a place in your life that you’re very comfortable, creativity comes really easy because it’s the frosting on the cake.

Kelley Peterson
So, if you feel very supported and you’re always supported, and your ideas are always listened to, it’s easy.  Growing up in a creative environment and as a child, as someone saying, an adult saying, “What do you think?” it’s…and you say what your thoughts are, and they actually listen to you, wow, what a gift. So someone’s always asked me, “What do you think?” And then said, “That’s a great idea.” And so the more you hear, “That’s a great idea,” you think similar and can do that again. You’re in a loving, supporting environment, and so there aren’t struggles, which so many nonprofits that we help do have in their childhoods.

Kelley Peterson
If you have that safety net, you can take a lot of risks because it’s really hard to fail from that. No one’s going to say, “That’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard,” or if they do, you can say, “I’ll come up with another one.” But I think it’s from being supported and having those ideas and having them again and again and again that you just are in practice. And I don’t think it’s different than being an all-star athlete who always finds themselves on the starting line because they earned it, for one, and they do it over and over again.

Kelley Peterson
Do they hit it every single time? They don’t, and neither do I. But I think it’s being in practice and having that support. When someone says, “I’m going to give this to Kelley. I know she’s going to come up with an idea.” There’s pressure to that, but then there’s also such great support in that.

Lyn Wineman
My lips have spoken those words many times, “Let’s get this to Kelley. It’s really hard to figure out.” I think that’s really great. You obviously, Kelley, had both nature and nurture on your side. But I think very much like an all-star athlete, there is an element to creativity that can be nurtured but not taught, right? I just really admire the creative directors, the writers, the art directors. And they say on my side that every brand strategist is a frustrated creative person, right?

Lyn Wineman
But I just have such admiration for what you do. And I think too, what a great insight for parents to nurture that side of your kids as well. So now, Kelley, I think one thing that’s really interesting about your background is that you are a creative director and I think the only creative director in the state of Nebraska that I know also has a professional certified marketer designation from the American Marketing Association. Can you talk about how that has impacted the way you work?

Kelley Peterson
I can. The professional certified marketer came about through the American Marketing Association, and this was several years ago that I took this test. I’m not really sure why I got the crazy idea that I wanted to get this because it’s very similar to taking the bar in law school or that’s what it’s been compared to. I think it is some crazy amount of time, and I want to say it’s a three to four-hour test in one take.

Kelley Peterson
It is one of those where you’re kind of biting your nails as you’re taking it. I mean, it’s the first time I’ve ever taken a test where you go to a learning center where they basically pat you down to make sure you don’t have anything to cheat with. You have a pencil and a calculator, and you’re in this room, and it’s really a test of your knowledge, of what you have gained. I don’t know how much I retained from all of that.

Kelley Peterson
I’m very proud that I did that process and have those three initials that I can attach to my name. But more so than that, how I use it every day is all of the things that the American Marketing Association has given to me. And being a creative person, it really is a combination between yes, there’s all that creative, but creative to what end? And that end is results. That’s what the AMA has taught me.

Kelley Peterson
And that’s what being a professional, certified marketer has done as well.  It really has to increase a return on investment in those types of things, that it’s not only the creative piece, it’s also got to do something. And whether that is raise money or sell so many more, whatever it is that you’re going to do, or even become a customer of a financial institution. There are goals that you’re trying to reach and that are trackable, and it was very much more dollars and cents than I ever learned. And I think to always keep that in the back of my mind is a good thing.

Lyn Wineman
That’s really great. I mean, advertising can be art, but the thing that differentiates advertising and art is that advertising really does have to achieve a result, something that really moves the needle. Whatever the needle is, it has to move that needle. So I want to talk to you just a little bit more about your creative process. Hey, maybe I am trying to learn to be a creative through these questions.

Lyn Wineman
But it’s 2020, and sadly we’re in the midst of the COVID-19 pandemic. And I’ve often said throughout my career, Kelley, that advertising is a team sport, because we all collaborate. Strategists get together with creative directors and writers and art directors, media people and digital people. And oftentimes we all get together in a room and we meet and we brainstorm and we talk, but we’re all working from home right now. I’m just curious, how has that impacted your work process? Because I know your workload has not decreased, and I know the quality of your ideas continues to be at a very high level as well.

Kelley Peterson
I think that just yesterday, I do have to say that I’m going to figure out my Zoom limit. Out of a workday, I think yesterday I was probably on Zoom solid for five hours. And I know that that’s too much. So I really need to do a better job during this time to balance. I like being on Zoom because that’s the social connectivity, like you were talking about and brainstorming, let’s all get together and think about this.

Kelley Peterson
But I really do miss the being unplugged piece. So again, when I’m not on Zoom and of course, meeting with people, I still am on a computer screen. And doing that solidly more than I ever have done before, I think for everybody, it’s probably taken a different kind of toll.

Lyn Wineman
I think a Zoom limit is a really healthy, healthy, healthy thing. So I think that’s really good advice. It’s amazing to me how creative people all over the world are really making that work, even though it’s not our ideal situation. We can’t all just say, “Time out. I’m going to stop until this is over.” We have to figure out a way to keep going. So I want to take a deeper dive now, Kelley, and talk about how your work is making a positive impact on the world, because I have seen the way you work with clients and what it does for them. But would you talk about that a little bit more?

Kelley Peterson
Sure. One of my most favorite things to do is name something. And I can talk about those naming projects. But what I love is that maybe the spark of the idea did come from me. One of my favorite things about KidGlov is how we work with brands. It’s so unique and different from any other agency that I’ve ever experienced. And it truly is about working with the person on the other side, working along with them.

Kelley Peterson
So, it isn’t really about Kelley Peterson’s idea, and that probably is my most favorite thing that happens.  The brand becomes everyone’s thing and evolves and becomes something different than that original idea to something that’s even better over time. So tangible things I can think of through my work would be renaming a brand. It was the Nebraska Early Childhood Education Endowment Fund.

Lyn Wineman
Oooh, sexy.

Kelley Peterson
They were calling themselves whatever that acronym is. I can never say it quite right. But they had a challenge before them that’s really cool about our state and our community, and that was if they could raise this money for early childhood, this $60 million. If they could raise $60 million, then the state would come up with a match, and then there would be early childhood services into perpetuity, forever.

Lyn Wineman
That’s a lot of money. That’s really a lot of money.

Kelley Peterson
That is a lot of money. So, thinking about using that professional certified marketer in my brain, was if that was achieved, that’s a goal, that’s the result that we’re looking for. If that’s achieved, this means that forever there’s kids across the state that could have early childhood development resources that wouldn’t normally be theirs, especially in rural areas. So super exciting to know the result of what that could possibly do. How could that be used in the world? That’s one project that could change the world.

Lyn Wineman
Yeah. And the ripple effect of helping all of those kids and going through the generations and the families, that is really neat to think about.

Kelley Peterson
So that brand became Sixpence Early Learning Fund. And it was a pocketful for life. What I love about that too, is that it was years ago that I was part of that project. They were able to raise the money. There’s Sixpence partnerships out all over the state and a really good friend of mine that I went to elementary school with who lives in a different town, I saw on Facebook and then ended up connecting with her. She said, “I am so happy I started my own early childhood program, I started my own Sixpence.” She had absolutely no idea I had anything to do with that. And that’s one of those internal joys of, right there, evidence of changing the world. And I’ll just keep that to myself.

Lyn Wineman
That’s fantastic. I just think that’s really great. And I know you have worked with so many brands. I mean, I don’t even know if we could count them all up. But if you really think about how their executive directors and their teams and their fundraising was impacted, then what’s really cool is when you think about all of the people that they were able to serve because they got the word out and they held the event and they raised the money to build their capacity. That’s where the ripple effect just becomes a tidal wave. And I think that’s great. So Kelley, this year, in addition to your work at KidGlov, which I know keeps you very busy, and your family too, this year you’re also serving as the board president for a local nonprofit. I’m curious, does that impact the work that you’re doing creatively?

Kelley Peterson
It really does. I started my career at an agency and then went to the client side and worked for a large nonprofit for seven years. And I loved that work, because I basically ran a marketing agency inside of a nonprofit agency. I really enjoyed that because I was so informed about what that agency was doing, I felt that that made the marketing better, that made the communications better. I knew more about the impact they were making in the world, so then I could shout it from the rooftops better.

Kelley Peterson
Because I was so involved, I was right there on the leadership team myself. When I went from the in-house side to more of the agency side, like at KidGlov, there is something to that too. There’s pros and cons to all that involvement of knowing the ins and outs of the nonprofit agency. But I think being on the board of an organization is very similar. You get to see all aspects, about the staff and about how they’re providing the work, and from their financial status, how is the strategic plan going? What is their mission and vision? All of those things.

Kelley Peterson
And then more so than having that position, I learned from the other board members how they’re truly embodying this brand as a board member. So, you embody a brand different as an employee than you do as someone who’s volunteering for the organization. And boards are that brand’s biggest fans, or they wouldn’t give that much time to it. So I think when you can learn from the board members, who are the organization’s biggest fans, you can communicate and message way better because you have the inside secret sauce.

Lyn Wineman
I love that. I’m sure too, you probably have more empathy for what a client is going through and what they need. And I have been reading lots of research recently on how important it is to communicate brand messaging internally, right? A lot of times when we think about branding, we think about how do I shout this from the rooftops and get it out to everyone? But also, how do I get it out inside the house? And that’s that knowledge of their employees and their board. It probably really adds another dimension to your thought process. So I’m really curious, all of these great things that you’re working on, can you tell us about something that you’re just really excited about right now?

Kelley Peterson
There are so many. So that’s going to be super hard. But one of the projects that I’m very excited about that’s coming up is as a result of KidGlov’s Agency for Change Challenge. And that whole process was such a great one. It was hard to choose. One of my most favorite meetings to be in recently was when we were all in this meeting of the minds.  And we’re all together and we’ve read all of the entries and all the social media that was involved.

Kelley Peterson
And there we came up with two really strong organizations to support. I just think it’s neat that KidGlov picked two instead of one, and that we are coming together and making that happen. And though I would love to be involved in both of those, I only have so much room on my plate. But the one that I’m really excited about working on is the Lincoln Community Playhouse. And the more I see the results of the Brand Advancement Process, the online survey and the community that they have put together and that has been around for many, many years, that has been part of my childhood and adulthood, I’m very excited to work on that project.

Lyn Wineman
That is really neat. For anybody who doesn’t know, the Agency for Change Challenge was a contest that KidGlov did in 2020 because it’s our 10-year anniversary. We’re in the middle of a pandemic, so we couldn’t have the big party and the ribbon cutting and the things we wanted to do. So we decided to give away $10,000 worth of marketing services to an organization who was changing the world.

Lyn Wineman
And we gave away two because we couldn’t decide.  These are great organizations, Child Saving Institute out of Omaha and Lincoln Community Playhouse out of Lincoln. And I’m really excited to see the ripple effect of those projects as well. So thank you for bringing that up. So, on the flip side, we talked about what you’re excited about. Now, what are some of the biggest challenges that you face, Kelley, in your work and also as someone who leads change?

Kelley Peterson
I think one of the biggest challenges, and it’s not unique to nonprofits, though nonprofits are obviously feeling it the most, is they have very limited budgets to do marketing, and their budgets are just dwindling because of COVID. So those marketing dollars are going to be even more non-existent than they were before. And the challenge is where they need to be, those channels have just been saturated.

Kelley Peterson
They don’t have the budgets to make a splash within the digital arena. There’s no way, though that’s where they should be maybe. It’s just hard because that’s where everyone’s at now. And so there just aren’t enough dollars to make enough impact to create the frequency that they need to be out there with their brand messages. And that to me is the biggest challenge right now, where everything’s digital.

Kelley Peterson
Everyone’s on their computer all day. So how do you make your websites stand out? People are seeing digital ads everywhere. How can you possibly even get in front of who you need to get in front of? In the direct mail arena though, I really think that has some legs right now because everyone is on their computers so much or phones or whatever it is. That physicality of paper I think is great.

Kelley Peterson
But right now, that’s when everyone does that too. So that’s the biggest challenge, “How can you stand out in these channels uniquely, so people remember not only your brand name, but what it is that you stand for and how you are changing the world? So that people leave with a thought.”

Lyn Wineman
That’s great. As you’re talking about stretching budgets, I have this image in my head of the old-fashioned taffy pulling machines. We need a budget pulling machine, right? Because we’re stretching those budgets as far as they can go, making the most of them. And there’s probably more pressure in that arena now than ever. So Kelley, what advice do you have for someone out there who aspires to lead positive change? And that could be in advertising, but also just being a changemaker.

Kelley Peterson
That is a big question. I was talking about those supports that I had at a young age, and my parents were great for that. But I think to lead positive change, you need to figure out what those supports are throughout your life. I can say every job I’ve had, every volunteer opportunity that I have had, that there were people associated with those opportunities, that I will keep with me for the rest of my life.

Kelley Peterson
And you need to have those people. What you call that, is your network. So when you are faced with challenges, that is who you call upon. And I know that this is a crazy kind of personal thing, but I recently had a birthday. And I love Facebook. I love social media. And most people have been on social media for a long time and have their Facebook pages. 

Kelley Peterson
And one of the greatest things is, it’s my birthday.  And these people come out of the woodwork on your birthday because they’re your friends, they’re your colleagues. There’re these people who are somehow associated to you. I’m always in awe of people taking the time to tell me Happy Birthday. So, each year I set aside however many hours that is, and I will personally contact them back and thank them for that greeting.

Lyn Wineman
That’s a great idea.

Kelley Peterson
So it’s not that one post where it’s a thank you for everybody wishing me happy birthday, but no, a one-on-one connect saying, “It is so good to hear from you, and thank you for thinking of me in this way. I hope you’re…” And mentioning it, if I know something that’s going on in their personal life. What I love is a friend of mine from middle school posted a picture of me as a teenager, I had on my Forenza sweater and this crazy hairdo.

Kelley Peterson
So many people posted on that picture because it was posted for my birthday. And I just wanted to tell her what a joy that was receiving that picture from my past and thinking about all those connections and those supports that you could call at any time and say, “Hey, do you have this?” Again, it’s the, what do you think?

Lyn Wineman
Yeah. That is such a cool idea, one of the coolest ideas I’ve heard in a long time. Take the time to personally connect with everybody who reaches out to you on social media for your birthday. That’s just a great gift to yourself and to others. A really neat thing to do.

Kelley Peterson
Being a marketer and thinking about social media, we think of social media very differently because it is a marketing tool. But I also crazily have an Instagram page for my dog, and what I’ve learned about social media the most, and probably why I do that Facebook thing, is it’s a social medium. You’re supposed to be social on it with each other. And I don’t think that people do that enough. And you can spread so much positivity, whether that’s through a human or through an animal, in this case, a pug, that you can brighten someone’s day with words, believe that or not.

Lyn Wineman
So, Kelley, your dog’s Instagram page is really fun. Would you share a little bit more about that project and what you do and how people can find it if they want to engage?

Kelley Peterson
Sure. It was truly because I’m a marketer and social media is one of those digital mediums that has just gone off the rails. I really wanted to do a social experiment for myself and just thought, “What if my dog had its own account?” It was really sparked by my kids using Snapchat, which was also another medium that I wanted to embrace and learn about. And so, when my kids went off to college, I would take a picture of my son’s dog who was left with me and I would Snapchat every day.

Kelley Peterson
And every morning I would take a picture of whatever Chubs was doing and I would send it off to my kids. And my kids finally said, “You know really, you do this every day just to tell us good morning, I think Chubs should really have his own Instagram page.” So @thedailychubs is where you can find him.

Kelley Peterson
And I had no idea the power of social media. I guess I’ve been doing this for over a year or maybe two years. But he truly…I say he…but I have connections all over the world through this dog and through these people who were experiencing life challenges and all kinds of things and spreading positivity. It’s so much so that it’s become real and you send Christmas cards to each other, and Chub’s has received mail from Tahiti, Belarus, Germany, Canada.

Lyn Wineman
Chubs is one of the most famous influencers that I know, I think. And he’s adorable. People should follow him.

Kelley Peterson
I just think it’s a new form of what we used to do…what was that called? Just having pen pals.

Lyn Wineman
Yeah. Digital pen pals. It’ s a lot faster now, right?

Kelley Peterson
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Lyn Wineman
A lot faster. So Kelley, I know we have a lot of marketers that listen to the podcast. With all of your expertise, can you provide your top tips on how to get the word out about your brand?

Kelley Peterson
Yes. And I’m going to go against probably all of those tools and channels. So, I want everybody during this time to put on their best guerrilla marketing hats that they have, because what I think is going to make a difference right now is that human touch because that’s what we’re all missing. And so if you can actually have a personal conversation, not necessarily on Zoom, maybe even a phone call, call somebody.

Kelley Peterson
And if you do have social accounts, respond back individually to those social accounts, just in a comment, wishing them something positive. Start the conversation. Write handwritten notes to individuals as much as you possibly can. Using KidGlov, again, as an amazing example. We have, I don’t know if you call it a program, what you want to call it. But we have buttons that we recognize each other with, and they are a little one and a half inch button that are, of course, the most creatively designed things.

Kelley Peterson
They’re very cute. But they’re connected to a personal handwritten note, whether you handwrote it or it’s the message inside. And if you can do direct mail, not direct mail to the masses, but one-on-one, when someone gets one of these buttons or a handwritten note from someone, it’s just like that Facebook thing that I said, “Hey, I took some time to tell you how thankful I am for you or I appreciated what you did.” And so you can’t do that to every single one of your donors or every single person that’s even on your board maybe. But pick a handful that maybe you haven’t talked to in a while and surprise them.

Lyn Wineman
That is so great. I know all of us at KidGlov are accomplished adults who get lots of affirmations during the day but getting a button in the mail at your house, since we’re not at the office right now, is special. They come in the mail to your house. I get excited about that. So you are right about that. And I’m going to add on to what you said, some of my favorite nonprofits that I always donate to have either employees or board members write handwritten thank you notes or call me on the phone. And I’m always so impressed by that.

Lyn Wineman
And at the end of the year, when I have a whole slew of people that I’m trying to decide who to give to, those always rise to the top. So that’s really great advice. One more thing I’m going to ask you, and some people tell me this is the hardest question that I ask, but I love motivational quotes. And it’s one of those things that’s fueling me through the pandemic. Could you give us a few of your own Kelley Peterson words of wisdom that can serve as inspiration for everyone listening?

Kelley Peterson
I knew you were going to ask me this question and we did talk about that this might be one of the hardest because no one thinks of themselves as wise or whatever this is going to be. So I handled this pretty much like everyone else that you have possibly interviewed. And where I get so much inspiration from is Pinterest, of course. So I’m like, okay, I’m going to come up with my own dang words and this is what it’s going to be.

Kelley Peterson
But until I come up with those words, I’m going to do that quick search and like whichever ones just really speak to me and always have. So I’m going to start with those and to then round about, come up with my words of wisdom. One of my most favorite is, “Do it with passion or not at all.” And I truly do believe that. We talk a lot about, at KidGlov, the fire in the belly, and that’s what keeps you going and what you wake up every morning to. So that one really spoke to me. And then what I love about Pinterest too, is that you just kind of scroll and then you get these, “You’re amazing. Own that shit.” And I’m like, “Yes. That’s the one that…”

Lyn Wineman
You’re amazing. Own that shit.

Kelley Peterson
That’s the one I want to say I said. That would be cool. And so those were the two that I think, oh, dang, I wish I had words like that, or words that were so inspirational to marketers. And every single time when we talk about branding and taglines we ask, “Who is the person that came up with – Just Do It?” Who is that? I want to be that person. And so then I thought, gosh, this shouldn’t be so difficult for me because this is what I do for a living, I come up with taglines for people. I come up with people’s quotes, what they say about their organization every single morning. How difficult can this be?

Lyn Wineman
It’s harder to do this work for yourself though, isn’t it?

Kelley Peterson
Yeah. I don’t know if I have a mantra, but I do know that again, when I was talking about those supports that you have in life, is to put yourself out there. I would say that that is the quote – Put yourself out there and take calculated, thoughtful risks.

Lyn Wineman
I love it. Kelley, we’re going to put this in a graphic and someday somebody is going to be looking through their own Pinterest boards and they’re going to see this and they’re going to say, “Darn, I wish I had come up with that quote.” Who is this Kelley Peterson?

Kelley Peterson
I hope so.

Lyn Wineman
That is great.

Kelley Peterson
I’m going to own that shit.

Lyn Wineman
Own that shit. So Kelley, while I could talk to you all day, sadly, our time is coming to an end. So if people out there want to find out more about you specifically, what is the best way to connect?

Kelley Peterson
Yes. If you want to connect with me, I suppose that email is the best. And you know what? You could find me at kidglov.com. That’s the easiest address. It’s kelley.peterson@kidglov.com. And I have something to say about that too. So it’s Kelley with an E-Y, dot Peterson with an S-O-N, at kidglov, no E, dot com.

Lyn Wineman
That’s right. We’re going to make it a little bit difficult. You’ve got to get all of those right in order to run the electronic gauntlet and actually get to you. That is fantastic. Kelley, anyone who knows you knows how amazing you are to work with. And I know how busy your schedule is, so I really do appreciate you taking this time to share your story and your wisdom. And it’s been a lot of fun.

Kelley Peterson
Thank you so much, Lyn.

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