March 14, 2022
Lana Temple-Plotz
Lana Temple-Plotz:
Our goal at the Children’s Home is to help families be better and stronger, to build connections with their kids, to build their life skills, and to help reduce those sources of stress for them so they can be the best parents they can be.
Announcer:
Welcome to Agency for Change, a podcast from KidGlov that brings you the stories of changemakers who are actively working to improve our communities. In every episode, we’ll meet with people who are making a lasting impact in the places we call home.
Lyn Wineman:
There’s a well-known quote from President John F. Kennedy that goes, “Children are the world’s most valuable resource and its best hope for the future.” Today we’re talking with someone from an organization that practices that exact sentiment by always putting children first in everything they do.
Lyn Wineman:
Hi, everyone. I am Lyn Wineman, president and chief strategist of KidGlov. This is the Agency for Change podcast, and we’re joined by guest Lana Temple-Plotz, CEO of the Nebraska Children’s Home Society, an organization that’s on a mission to provide safe and loving care to children of all ages by offering education for families, facilitating adoption, supporting foster parents and kids, and helping families at every step of the way.
Lyn Wineman:
Lana, welcome to the podcast.
Lana Temple-Plotz:
Thank you, Lyn. Great to be here.
Lyn Wineman:
Great to see you again. You and I have known each other for a long time, but haven’t seen each other for a while, so always great to talk with you. Before we get too far along, could you tell our listeners who may not be familiar with your organization what the Nebraska Children’s Home Society does and who it serves?
Lana Temple-Plotz:
Yes, absolutely. Nebraska Children’s Home Society, we are a statewide organization. We’re 129 years old.
Lyn Wineman:
Oh, wow.
Lana Temple-Plotz:
I know, isn’t that crazy? We serve the entire state, and we have three core areas–adoption, foster care, family support, and one more, early childhood education.
Lyn Wineman:
That’s great.
Lana Temple-Plotz:
We do lots of different things within those four areas.
Lyn Wineman:
Fantastic. On your website and several of your materials, you talk about how Nebraska Children’s Home Society puts children first. What does that look like?
Lana Temple-Plotz:
One of the things that I love about this organization is we’re incredibly focused on what’s best for kids. Our first question is always, “What does a child need, or how can we best serve the child, what can we do to help support this child, and we go out from there?” That’s been a thing that I’ve really loved about this organization, is that we’ve really focused on the needs of the child and ensuring that we put them first in the equation to make sure that they have the support and loving care that they need to be successful.
Lyn Wineman:
I’ve often heard it said about nonprofits that you can’t go wrong if you put your mission first. I actually think that works for for-profits as well, but when your mission is children, that has got to feel really good.
Lana Temple-Plotz:
Yeah, absolutely.
Lyn Wineman:
You mentioned adoption services, and I know you provide post-adoption services. I think in some cases, somebody on the outside might think, “Hey, once the child is adopted, the work is done,” but I’m curious, how do you continue to help adoptive parents after that process is complete?
Lana Temple-Plotz:
We, of course, provide adoption services within our own organization. We support families who have adopted through us for the entire life, their entire lifespan with them-
Lyn Wineman:
Oh my goodness.
Lana Temple-Plotz:
… and all members of the adoption circle, right. Adoptive parents, adoptees, birth parents, we support all those individuals for as long as they need us. But in addition to that, we also provide post-adoption services across the state for folks who have adopted outside of our organization. We have a contract with the department right now and it’s called Families Forever. We’re focused on families who have adopted either through foster care or infant or international adoption and are living in Nebraska. Magically, around the age of 12 or 13 children start to have some difficulties, they’re looking at their own identity, right?
Lyn Wineman:
Oh, my goodness. Yes, yes.
Lana Temple-Plotz:
And trying to figure out who they are in this great big world. We often get families who come to us who may have been doing just fine and then around the age of 12 or 13 is when kids typically, all kids, start to question who they are and where they belong. For adoptees, this can just bring up a lot of things, a lot of questions and a lot of different behaviors and things.
Lana Temple-Plotz:
We just help families with whatever they need, support groups, education. We have one-on-one mentoring and support for families to help them, connect them to resources in their communities. That’s just what we do through our post-adoption services.
Lyn Wineman:
Lana, I have three kids of my own. I never felt brave enough to adopt, but I know that the families who do just reap great rewards. But I had so many questions when my kids hit that age, I think I read every parenting book available. I was lucky my mother has a child development degree, so I’d always, every morning, was just calling her and saying, “What do I do now? What do I do now?” I imagine with adoptive parents that has got to be even a greater need, so that’s a great, great service to have.
Lyn Wineman:
I’m curious too, what other program or services do you have that might surprise our listeners?
Lana Temple-Plotz:
That’s a great question. I think organizationally we’re doing a lot in the family support space. We have a program right now that we’re just bringing up, a service that we’re just bringing up called Mobility Mentoring. It’s a coaching and mentoring program for families. We are working with an organization on the west coast called EMPath and we are replicating their model across the state with our families that we work with. It really looks at self-sufficiency and all different kinds of self-sufficiencies.
Lana Temple-Plotz:
Oftentimes, if families are having struggles with concrete supports and with financial concerns and getting the things that they need to raise their kids, that’s one area where lots of folks are able to assist families. We take it beyond that, beyond just budgeting, and we look at all the goals a family might have. Do they want to build connections with their own family? Do they need more resources and supports? Raising kids, as you mentioned, is hard and it’s hard to do by yourself. Even when you have support from family, it’s nice to have a lot of different opportunities and resources. Do they want to build their resources and their supports with their family? Do they want to get a higher education degree? Are they having housing concerns?
Lana Temple-Plotz:
There’s just a lot of different things we look at, the whole family, and it’s the family’s decision about what they want to work on. We just help them reach their goals through that program.
Lyn Wineman:
That is so cool. Mentoring has been a really popular, I think, and positive process in business and I think in college and as people graduate from college, but I love the idea of mentoring a family, because really, you don’t go to college to learn how to be a family. I mean, there are resources out there, but sometimes it’s hard to put them all together. I think that is just such a cool program. I honestly have never heard of anything like it, so congrats.
Lana Temple-Plotz:
Yeah. We’re excited about it. Like I said, our teams are getting trained in it and we’re starting to incorporate it into our other programming. That’s the great thing about this model, is that you can infuse it into the things you’re already doing, which is fantastic. I’m really excited about that.
Lana Temple-Plotz:
Another component folks might not be aware of with us is our Kinship Navigation services.
Lyn Wineman:
Oh, yeah.
Lana Temple-Plotz:
We talked a lot about adoption and we also provide foster care. In those two situations, families are really prepared to take children, there’s lots of training in education. In kinship situations, families are not typically prepared ahead of time to take a child. If my sister, for example, was having a problem or a struggle and she needed to be hospitalized for some reason and her kids were young, they might call me and say, “Can you come get them today?”
Lyn Wineman:
Oh, wow.
Lana Temple-Plotz:
“If you don’t come get them today, we’re going to have to place them in care.” Every family member wants to help their relatives and so they say yes and they bring these kids on, and they don’t have any of the supports that regular foster parents would have. They don’t have training, education and support. That’s what we’re doing through our Kinship Navigation program and through some of the other services we offer around supporting kin families, which is so important because the research shows that kids do better, if they have to leave their own home, they do much better with people who they know and relatives than they would in a home of someone that they’ve never met. Supporting those folks is great.
Lyn Wineman:
That sounds like a great service, and that’s right, I don’t think I know a single person who is saying, “I’ve got a lot of extra time and money and I’d just like some kids to show up.” As much as you love the kids, it’s a big responsibility, a financial, emotional, time commitment, so many, many things there. That sounds like a great, great service as well.
Lyn Wineman:
Lana, I understand that Nebraska Children’s Home Society is a member of the Children’s Home Society of America.
Lana Temple-Plotz:
Yes.
Lyn Wineman:
I’m curious, can you walk me through that relationship and how it benefits the children you serve?
Lana Temple-Plotz:
Yeah, absolutely. Children’s Home Society of America, or CHSA, is made up of 24 high performing, nationally recognized, accredited organizations across the country. It’s incredibly cool because I sit on the board of CHSA and there’s just so many opportunities for us to partner. I learn a ton from other organizations in different states about how they’re providing services and what they’re doing. In addition to that, these are all nonprofits, they’re all across the country. Collectively, we impacted 500,000 children last year.
Lyn Wineman:
Oh my goodness.
Lana Temple-Plotz:
It just really raises your impact. Some of the things that we have done organizationally in connection with Children’s Home Society of America are our current relationship with Harvard Center on the Developing Child. That came to us through our relationship with Children’s Home Society of America. The service I just mentioned, Mobility Mentoring, we learned about that through Children’s Home Society of America. We do a national conference every year called Wicked Problems, solving the wicked problems of child welfare. We participate in that through Children’s Home Society of America.
Lana Temple-Plotz:
It’s just a great opportunity for us to strengthen our voice and strengthen our services through connecting with those other folks, and just an opportunity for me, as CEO, also to learn from other CEOs and connect with others who are doing great work. It’s been really helpful to our organization.
Lyn Wineman:
Sometimes, Lana, people don’t think about how CEOs need mentoring or a support network, right?
Lana Temple-Plotz:
Absolutely.
Lyn Wineman:
Or just someone to go to and say, “Wow, I am having this situation. You’ve probably also had this situation. How did you deal with it?” That’s got to be incredible. Congratulations to you for being on the national board. I think that’s got to serve Nebraska really well knowing that you are representing us on that level.
Lana Temple-Plotz:
Yeah, absolutely.
Lyn Wineman:
Congratulations, congratulations.
Lana Temple-Plotz:
It’s so funny because I presented at a class before at UNL on leadership, and one of the things I told the class was that the tools and skills that got me to be a CEO are not the skills I use now.
Lyn Wineman:
Yes.
Lana Temple-Plotz:
When you move to that next level and you’re in a leadership position within an organization, the kinds of things you need to learn how to do are different than the things that got you there. That’s been really fascinating for me and it’s been super helpful to have CHSA partners, just CEOs who’ve been CEOs for a long time, who I can have conversations with and learn from their work and all the things that they do. It’s been great.
Lyn Wineman:
That’s neat. I think there’s actually a whole book about that and I’m probably going to slaughter it, but I think the title is something like What Got You Here Won’t Get You There. It’s not a nice fluffy book. It is a very pointed, direct, you need to think about these things kind of a book, but it’s the reality of being successful at that next level. I’m glad you’ve got that support system and mentoring for yourself in place.
Lyn Wineman:
I have to ask you one and marketing question, being-
Lana Temple-Plotz:
Yeah, absolutely.
Lyn Wineman:
… being in marketing. Rebranding always really interests me. I actually followed your rebrand, I think it was in 2018, to mark the 125th anniversary. You’re almost to 130 now. But I know you helped lead the society through that complete brand refresh. Could you talk to me about the need for the brand refresh, and maybe how did you accomplish it and what were the benefits you got out of it?
Lana Temple-Plotz:
When we went through that process, the brand that we had before was two colored. I think we started it in, I want to say, the ’70s, and my marketing PR director is going to probably correct me on that, but we had that brand for a long time. It was a picture of a baby, and we do so much more than just work with babies. Our new brand, it’s a house and it has many different people inside that house. The focus of that for is really on the center and the center of our brand is a child represents a child and how there are individuals who support that child both in and outside of the house. That really does speak more to what we do as an organization. It’s multi-layered and multi-colored, which just allows, as you know in your profession, so many more opportunities for colorful ways to share what we do as an organization.
Lana Temple-Plotz:
We’ve been really pleased with our new brand and we’ve just had so many great opportunities to utilize it in different ways. It’s just created a whole new level of vibrant marketing tools for us.
Lyn Wineman:
Yeah, yeah. Vibrant, vibrant is one of the things I take away from it. I think, to me, when I first saw it, when it came out in 2018, I thought, “Yeah, this is a variety of people coming together to support the child.” Well done, and congratulations on that.
Lana Temple-Plotz:
Thank you so much. Thank you.
Lyn Wineman:
Lana, you’ve been at the helm of the organization now since 2017. Since that time, I’m curious, how have you seen it change, and what do you think is next for Nebraska Children’s Home Society?
Lana Temple-Plotz:
After I started as CEO, we implemented a new strategic plan. We did that in 2019. That was a huge change for us, we did strategic planning in a way we’ve never done it before. Yeah. That was really exciting. We took a whole year to figure out what we wanted to do. What’s great about that is that we really looked forward to the future aspirationally, where do we want to go? It’s a 10-year plan, which is a lot longer than most strategic plans.
Lana Temple-Plotz:
It was really interesting, because when we were doing that and our consultant was challenging us to think big, it was really hard for us to do that because in the nonprofit space you’re so used to scarcity and just trying to get to the next thing. Thinking big about where we want our organization to go in 10 years is really helpful for us to set that course and so that we can really think about what do we want to have happen.
Lana Temple-Plotz:
A great example of that is our aspiration around universal home visitation or home visitation for every family in Nebraska. We would not have set that vision, a vision that we couldn’t obtain by ourselves, within a previous strategic plan. That particular aspiration asks us to look not just so what we can do, but how we can partner with others to make sure every family has the opportunity to have early intervention and support in the way of home visitation. Again, much bigger than us. That, I think for us, that plan really helped us think bigger, not just about strategy and where we were going, but what are we doing as an organization?
Lana Temple-Plotz:
Of course, the pandemic required all of us to be virtual and remote. We’ve reimagined how we do our work, just like every other organization. We do a lot of virtual meetings and we have a lot more flexibility with folks as far as when they’re in the office and when they’re not and where they can work and where they can’t, and that’s been really helpful. Our employees are our most important asset and resource and it’s so important to make sure that they have an environment that’s comfortable and that they feel welcome and that they feel like they can do their job and take care of their families too.
Lana Temple-Plotz:
We’ve worked really hard in the last few years to build our organization as it relates to our employee experience. Virtual, like I mentioned, flexibility in work environments. We, this year, moved everyone up to the 75th percentile in salary to make sure that everybody could be able to pay their bills and do their work. Also, have been working for the last year and a half, actually, a little over a year, with an equity and justice firm called K & R Strategies. We’re really focused on moving our organization to an anti-racist, anti-oppression organization, which is a huge thing for us.
Lyn Wineman:
Absolutely.
Lana Temple-Plotz:
Especially, of course this is a podcast and people can’t see me, but I’m a white woman. I’m running this organization and I want to make sure that we have an organization that’s equitable for all, that every employee feels welcome and feels that they can be their true self here. I’ve just learned a ton in the last year about my own individual way that I view the world and how it’s so mired in institutional racism that is around us all the time. That’s been really exciting for us as an organization, and for me personally, how to make sure that we are truly working in a way that welcomes every individual, not just our families, but our employees too, so that they can have a great experience here.
Lana Temple-Plotz:
I always tell everyone the first day that I want this to be the best place that they’ve ever worked. That’s a really tall order, and I feel like now we’re really doing somethings through our equity and justice work, through our flexible schedules, through our salaries, to really make that happen. Like I said, our employees, our teams, are our most important people and they do the hard stuff, so it’s important that we create an experience that’s great for them.
Lyn Wineman:
Wow, Lana, what great things you are doing. I love everything you said. I mean, sometimes I think people who are not in nonprofits think, “I’m going to go to the nonprofit side because it’ll be a kinder, gentler, easier path,” and it’s not, it’s a lot of work. I mean, I know in your particular human service area, sometimes you see things that are really difficult, right?
Lana Temple-Plotz:
Yeah.
Lyn Wineman:
You work hard, usually you get paid less, but you are working to rectify a lot of that. I love your whole thought on equity and justice, because I think a lot of leaders are going through that. There was a time when I felt, as a leader, I’m okay because I’m not doing anything bad, I’m not doing anything bad, but as you explore and learn and really take time to listen and educate yourself, you realize, I’ve looked at the world through this one lived experience and I don’t understand. Pushing yourself outside of your comfort zone and learning that and rectifying it, I think, is a really important journey, so good for you.
Lyn Wineman:
I do want to talk a little bit about you, because you’re obviously a very dynamic leader, which doesn’t surprise me because you and I went to college together and you were always very dynamic and outspoken and passionate college students. We didn’t see each other for a long time. You joined Nebraska Children’s Home Society I think in 2013, right?
Lana Temple-Plotz:
Mm-hmm.
Lyn Wineman:
I know you had a lot of experience with different organizations that served kids and families prior to that, but what can you tell us about your career path and how it led where you are today?
Lana Temple-Plotz:
Well, my degrees are both in human development in the family, so I have my undergraduate. I think they call it family science now, that tells you how old I am. It used to be called human development in the family, but I have my bachelor’s in that. I was actually invited to get my master’s, which was fantastic. They helped pay for it, so that was totally awesome.
Lyn Wineman:
Nice.
Lana Temple-Plotz:
Otherwise, I probably wouldn’t. I’m always in awe of women, in particular, who are raising children and trying to go back and get their degrees because it’s so hard to do.
Lyn Wineman:
Oh yeah, and working.
Lana Temple-Plotz:
Yes.
Lyn Wineman:
Many working, raising kids, getting their degrees. I don’t know how they do it.
Lana Temple-Plotz:
I don’t know how they do it either, yeah. My two degrees are in human development. Then I started my career at Boys Town. I actually worked there for 10 years in their foster care program, direct service and treatment foster care. Then I worked and trained other organizations in foster care. I did a lot of work, both internally and externally at Boys Town, and training and program development and all those kinds of components. Then I went to Lutheran Family Services and I was there for about five years and oversaw all their-
Lyn Wineman:
Two great organizations by the way.
Lana Temple-Plotz:
Yeah, they’re awesome. Went there and oversaw all their children’s services programming for about five years. Then I went to a for-profit for a year and ran their nonprofit side. They had the foundation, so I ran that for about a year. Then I went back to Boys Town and worked on their foster care model and ran their foster care program for a few years before I came to the Children’s Home as the chief program officer.
Lana Temple-Plotz:
My mentor is Karen Authier, she was the CEO here. She and I stayed connected because I worked with her at Boys Town and Lutheran. People laughed when I came here because we know each other so well and I would finish her sentences and get her coffee and everything. They were like, “Wow, you treat her like she’s a queen,” and I was like, “Because she is, she’s awesome.”
Lyn Wineman:
I love that.
Lana Temple-Plotz:
Yeah. Yeah, so that’s how I landed at the Children’s Home. Throughout my whole career, the Children’s Home has always had such a positive impact and such a strong reputation. I was really blessed to be able to come here and work, and then be able to be the CEO is just a lifelong dream.
Lyn Wineman:
That’s great, sounds like a really focused path as well. You knew what field you wanted to be in and you progressed through it. One thing that surprised me, you have done something I have always wanted to do and have not yet, but in preparing for our interview, I came across the fact that you co-authored a book published in 2002, called Practical Tools for Foster Parents.
[Order Lana’s book here: https://www.amazon.com/Practical-Tools-Foster-Parents-Temple-Plotz/dp/1889322490]
Lana Temple-Plotz:
Yes.
Lyn Wineman:
Can you tell us more about the process of writing the book and why you and the other co-authors wanted to get this information into the world?
Lana Temple-Plotz:
When I worked at Boys Town the first time, as I mentioned, and the second time, I worked a lot with foster care and foster parenting. This book is all about how to be a good foster parent. It was really important to our organization to share that beyond just our walls at Boys Town. We did a lot of work, of course, internally with foster care and foster parenting and also we trained external organizations, but it was really important to the organization as a whole to really share that knowledge and information about how to be the best foster parent that you could be.
Lana Temple-Plotz:
The experience was really great because I had a whole team of people who were with me to help me. I always have wanted to write a book. As you mentioned, I’d love to write a book someday, but I don’t know if I could do it all by myself, because I had all this whole group of people who helped me. It was a really good experience for me to be able to do it. It made my parents really proud, which is also super important when you’re a kid.
Lyn Wineman:
How many copies does your mom have on her books shelf? I love that.
Lana Temple-Plotz:
I think she had like three or something like that. I’m like, “Mom, that’s from 2002.” She doesn’t care.
Lyn Wineman:
I wouldn’t care either, Lana. I’m proud to be your friend and know that you wrote a book. I think that’s great.
Lana Temple-Plotz:
My mom is so funny because she … you’re a mom, as moms we don’t have filters, right?
Lyn Wineman:
Right.
Lana Temple-Plotz:
She would write my colleagues and she would say things like, “I bet she does a really good job here because she’s always been super bossy,” and I’m like, “Mom, do not tell people that, that is not okay.”
Lyn Wineman:
Yes. Thanks, Mom. Thanks, Mom. Yes. I remember my mom saying once, “Wow, is her office as messy as she kept her room when she was a kid?” It’s like, “Mom, don’t say that.”
Lana Temple-Plotz:
Absolutely.
Lyn Wineman:
Got to love moms.
Lyn Wineman:
Lana, as a leader who does difficult and sometimes heart wrenching work, what advice do you have for other leaders who want to make a difference in the world?
Lana Temple-Plotz:
I think for me, what’s been important for me to remember is to focus on the people around you and to make sure that you have a strong team. I’ve really learned that to be real, to be vulnerable with other folks, to try to be humble and flexible, all those things are super important. But as the leader of this organization, I’m often looked to for things like this for interviews and to talk about our organization, but there’s so many people within our organization that do all the hard stuff. What I love is that ability to have such a strong team around me who knows how to do their job and is really excellent at it. That just helps elevate our entire organization. For me, I just have learned, especially as CEO, to get out of people’s way is super important.
Lyn Wineman:
Great advice. Have a great team, get out of their way, represent them well. It sounds like you’re taking good care of them too, which also is very helpful.
Lyn Wineman:
Lana, I am inspired by motivational quotes and everybody who listens to the podcast knows this is my favorite question. Could you give us a few Lana Temple-Plotz original words of wisdom?
Lana Temple-Plotz:
Oh my gosh. In my office, I have quotes all over my office, it’s completely full. Lots of them are not my original words. One of my favorites is, “Let go or be dragged.”
Lyn Wineman:
I love that.
Lana Temple-Plotz:
Which is not an original quote. Then my other one is, “No one can drive crazy unless we give them the keys.” I love that one too, that’s also not original. But I think my original one would be, small actions lead to big impact.
Lyn Wineman:
Oh yeah.
Lana Temple-Plotz:
I think for me, I try to really think about that when I’m out in the world and having conversations with people, or just meeting people, how do we know what they’re going through and what’s happening with them and how can we make their day a little bit brighter.
Lyn Wineman:
That is beautiful.
Lana Temple-Plotz:
And give people a break.
Lyn Wineman:
I always ask that, Lana, because I feel like many people are inspired by the words of others and don’t give themselves enough credit for the words that they have. I think that small actions lead to big impact, that is a great quote and it is now attributed to Lana Temple-Plotz. Thank you for that.
Lana Temple-Plotz:
Absolutely.
Lyn Wineman:
For our listeners who would like to learn more about your work and how to support you and the society, how can they find out more about the Nebraska Children’s Home Society? Maybe they want to become a foster parent, for example.
Lana Temple-Plotz:
Absolutely, yeah. You can go to our website, www.nchs.org. We’re on Facebook and Twitter and we’re on Instagram. You can call us, you can Google us. We’re available.
Lyn Wineman:
Fantastic.
Lana Temple-Plotz:
But our website is a great resource. There’s a ton of information on our website about what we’re doing, where we’re focused. That’s a great place to start.
Lyn Wineman:
Fantastic. We’ll have that, nchs.org, we’ll have that in the show notes for anybody who maybe didn’t catch it from listening. As we wrap up our time together today, Lana, what is the most important thing you would like our listeners to remember about the work that you’re doing?
Lana Temple-Plotz:
I think the most important thing for me, and I say this a lot, is that no one has a baby looks at that baby and says, “If I could screw this up, that would be awesome.” Everyone who has a child or works with children wants to do the best they can. Some of us have more support, more resources, more skills, more tools. I mean, I have two human development degrees, I have two sisters and a mom. I have all this support and I raised four kids and it’s the hardest thing I’ve ever done.
Lyn Wineman:
Yeah.
Lana Temple-Plotz:
Even with all that support, I still had times where I was like, “I cannot do this.” I think for me, the most important thing I would want our listeners to remember is that our goal at the Children’s Home is really to help families be better and stronger, to be build connections with their kids, to build their life skills, and to help reduce those sources of stress for them so they can be the best parents they can be. Everybody needs different things, and so our job is really to help people figure out what they need and help them get that.
Lyn Wineman:
Lana, that is so great. I fully believe the world needs more people like you, more organizations like Nebraska Children’s Home Society. Thank you for taking time to share with us today.
Lana Temple-Plotz:
Absolutely. It was fun to talk with you.
Announcer:
We hope you enjoyed today’s Agency for Change podcast. To hear all our interviews with those who are making a positive change in our communities, or to nominate a changemaker you’d love to hear from, visit KidGlov.com at K-I-D-G-L-O-V.com to get in touch. As always, if you like what you’ve heard today, be sure to rate, review, subscribe, and share. Thanks for listening, and we’ll see you next time.