Nada Hanafi and Liz Powell

Connect with Nada, Liz, and Women’s Health Advocates at:

• Website – https://womenshealthadvocates.org/

 

Nada Hanafi: 0:01

You’re in it for service, but the equity aspect, it is a must-have. Otherwise, we will never see those good health outcomes we’re seeking.

Liz Powell: 0:11

Our voice is our power. Our power depends on all of us.

Announcer: 0:18

Welcome to Agency for Change, a podcast from KidGlov that brings you the stories of change makers who are actively working to improve our communities. In every episode, we’ll meet with people who are making a lasting impact in the places we call home.

Lyn Wineman: 0:41

Hey everyone, welcome back to the Agency for Change podcast. This is Lyn Wineman, president and chief strategist of KidGlov. Today’s episode is a powerful reminder that real change does not happen by accident. It happens when expertise, advocacy, and courage come together. I’m joined by two extraordinary leaders in women’s health, Nada Hanafi and Liz Powell. And between them, these two women bring decades of experience shaping public health, influencing policy, and building bridges between science, government, and the people who are most impacted by the decisions being made. We are going to talk about the issues in women’s health that, you know, don’t honestly always get attention like they deserve. We’re going to talk about why these issues exist and what’s standing in the way of progress and how advocacy, both personal and collective, can drive meaningful change. So whether you care about public health policy or you just simply want to be a better advocate for yourself and others, there is so much insight in this episode. So I’m excited for you to hear their perspectives. Nada and Liz, welcome to the podcast.

Liz Powell: 2:08

Wonderful. So nice to be part of this conversation today. Thank you.

Nada Hanafi: 2:12

Well, thank you. And good morning, good afternoon to all the listeners. It’s really exciting to be here and having this conversation, Lyn.

Lyn Wineman: 2:19

I have really been looking forward to talking to the two of you because I know historically women’s health is an issue that gets ignored. Sometimes it gets ignored by women ourselves. We just want to put that in the background and wait for it to all blow over until the timing is right. So, Liz, let’s start with you. I’d love to have you tell us a bit about yourself and what you do.

Liz Powell: 2:47

Sure. So I am the founder and head of G2G Consulting, which stands for government to growth. We’re a lobbying firm in Washington, D.C., that I started 19 years ago. Cannot believe that. Before that, I yeah, worked on Capitol Hill as a legislative staffer, always worked on health policy, staffed the Congressional Caucus for Women’s Issues, for example. But then I also staffed some interesting committees. One was a small business committee, so all those small business programs and FBIRs that are great for our life sciences, and then uh the armed services committee, which is all the military. That our government um has. So with that background, I’m also an attorney with a master’s in public health. I started to notice gaps in women’s health. And I would have some client work, some projects here or there over the past 10 years. But I finally, around 2019 connected those dots that they weren’t one-off problems, they were systemic problems, and that we could do something by bringing the community together to solve those problems. And so I helped launch a few different coalitions over the years, and then finally realized we need something that is the umbrella for all of women’s health head to toe over the lifespan, and that is women’s health advocates. And so we officially launched February of last year, so one year ago.

Lyn Wineman: 4:02

That’s fantastic. You know, we had our mutual friend Susan Willig on, and she talked a little bit about women’s health advocates and advocacy. So I’m glad to have you bring that back up again. And I know we’ll dive into that more. And just on the side, this is not an interesting time at all to be in government relations, I imagine.

All right, Nada, how about you? I’d love to hear a bit more about you and what you do.

Nada Hanafi: 4:32

Sure. It’s a little bit colorful like Liz’s, but um, so I call myself a veteran, even though I’m not that old, of FDA NIH. I say I grew up at FDA and spent a very over decade there and predominantly within the Center for Devices and Radiological Health. At heart, I’m a public health servant. I believe in the mission of service and doing good for others. So FDA’s mission of protect and promote public health and be stewards of good science really resonated with me. So while I was there, I also got an MPH like this. I’m not a lawyer, so I’m not as smart as they are, but I’m a biomed engineer and had a got a master’s in biomaterials and then came across the pond while at the agency. I think I was one of the first trained engineers to get a public health degree, and we started looking at our bigger mission and the impact of our decision making on the public, really, and what products we let onto the market, how they stayed safe and effective while on the market. So I really dove into those and areas of inequities where there was underrepresentation of women in clinical studies, the historical exclusion of women of childbearing potential or pregnant lactating in clinical studies. And that all spread a lot of focus on the study of sex differences, developing a health of women program, i.e., looking at the broad aspect of women beyond just our reproductive organs, and kind of trying to see how we can develop products and programs and policies that made sure the products were safe and effective once they got to market. And now I feel like I’m still in service, but I choose who I work with. I work with companies to help them navigate evidence generation, thinking about getting a product from a concept through the agencies, regulatory agencies, and then to patients who can truly benefit from them. Mouthful, Liz, you are so much more efficient.

Lyn Wineman: 6:31

So you know what I appreciate about both of you, in addition to your obvious high intelligence and your great experience, is that it sounds to me like you both recognized an issue and you both are moving in a direction to make that issue less of an issue or to help people around that issue. So I’m gonna ask a really big question next, and you tell me, maybe it’s even too big of a question, but what are the hot issues you are each working on right now in the area of women’s health? And Liz, let’s start with you.

Liz Powell: 7:09

Great question. And there’s tons to be working on. I would say from the lens of women’s health advocates and policy and advocacy, what we are trying to do is to close gaps across the spectrum. And closing these gaps, I like to put in these categories, but it’s sort of endless. So when you’re trying to bring innovation to market to reach patients, to actually improve outcomes, to save lives, all those things, you need to get funding, whether that is government funding, that is investment funding. And by the way, new report out called Follow the Exits, Why Women’s Health is a great bet for investors, showed that $100 billion worth of exits have already occurred in women’s health, and half of that in the past five years. So this is a surging area for investment. If you just want to make money, women’s health is a bet. You actually want to help and improve health outcomes, also women’s health is a good investment. But there’s government funding as well. There’s been this new ARPA H sprint for women’s health program, there’s defense funding, there’s NIH funding. So there are current government programs and funding, but we need a lot more, and we need to make sure that we’re getting sex aggregated data and analysis out of that. Only about half of our studies even do that. So research, investment dollars, that’s a big focus. Another is the regulatory pathway, which Nada is the expert on, but making sure that we have a regulatory system that enables bringing much needed innovations to market in a safe and effective way. Reimbursement. If you don’t have reimbursement, then you’re never gonna reach patients, right? And access. You have to have access to innovation or it’s pointless. Those who need it most must have it covered. So we need our insurance system, whether it’s the private system, public system, military, all insurance systems have to include this coverage. And then you’ve got market adoption, education and awareness, right? You’re not gonna ever accomplish closing these gaps without that. So those are sort of different steps that you go through in trying to reach patients. And those are, I guess, hot topics for us. But of course, issues like menopause and specific health conditions, very important to us as well. And we’ve done various events um addressing that as well. But that is my answer. So I will stop talking about that.

Lyn Wineman: 9:29

Wow, that was a big question and a big answer. I feel like actually a little bit of a master, a five-minute masterclass or three-minute masterclass on women’s health issues. Nada, I’d love to hear your perspective because you’re coming at this from a different angle, right? In your mind, what are the hot issues in women’s health right now?

Nada Hanafi: 9:50

That’s why I love working with Liz, because she got it like big picture. So I’m lucky enough to have supported Liz in finding women’s health advocates, and she’s our fearless leader leading us on. And the beauty of it is it brings all these different perspectives and these different lived experiences of women to the table. And it’s enabling women to find their voice and advocate for what matters to them. So throughout all the wonderful things Liz said and all the different stakeholders that need to come to play to really advance health outcomes is designing with inclusivity in mind, is really centering around patients and what their unique needs are. It’s really being able to develop products that are going to meet those unique needs. But then also you the access to care, right? The having culturally competent access to care and access to physicians who understand the unique needs of women and across the lifespan, right? So historically, women have been considered little men. We’re not, and that’s where all the devices, the products have generally been developed based on the unique aspects of an 80-pound male, not 80-pound, 80-kilogram male, right?

Lyn Wineman: 11:09

An 80-pound male would be fairly small.

Nada Hanafi: 11:11

Very tiny, yeah, but an 80-kilogram male, right? But we that shifting has things, and we’ve had progress, but it’s more so like um we gotta put the foot to the metal and keep driving at it. So I what I’d underscore in all of that is having patient-centered efforts, bringing the patient voice to the center, ensuring that access and the access piece, not only from the systemic changes that are needed, but from who’s delivering the care. A lot of women continue to be gaslit in terms of their conditions and how they show up and are dismissed. How do we overcome those? So it’s a multi-pronged approach, and there’s so many problems, which I think Liz and I take them as opportunities. I think the point is how can we? I love solving problems. That’s public health 101. Problem solving is the first one. So, how do you truly get at solving the problems, but including the people at the table to help you truly define the problem and come up with the solution?

Lyn Wineman: 12:18

I think that’s the perfect lead into honestly another question that I have is we’re talking about these issues and some of the problems. What are some things people can do to advocate for women’s health? And let’s talk about it first as a big issue. Like, what are some of the things we can do to think about this as a big issue? And then I want to dive a little bit closer to home after that. And Nada, let’s talk to you since you kind of led us into this. What are things that I and some of our other listeners might do? Right. I I mean, one thing I always love a good letter to the senator, right? But you know, I don’t even know at this moment what do I write about, right? Yeah, tell us what are some steps we could take.

Nada Hanafi: 13:07

So Liz has solved that problem for you, but that’s a great one. But maybe, maybe I’ll come from it from a patient or and let Liz dive into the details of even the how you get with your Senate and congressional leaders. But I would say start by getting informed. And there’s a lot of misinformation out there as well. So be like where you get your information, make sure it’s valid information. So the first one is always awareness. Get informed, uh seek or lean in with curiosity to understand, right? We’re all patients in the end, and then support the organizations doing the work that resonates with you. Again, if you believe in it, you’re gonna lean in and do good work. So I think that’s the real big piece. And then to Liz’s point, I think there’s a lot of stigma out there, and there’s a lot of noise about women’s health. What is women’s health? And maybe we should have defined that. But the way we look at it, and a lot of times we like to say health of women, so that we’re not thinking of bikini medicine. We talk about from head to toe. Cardiovascular disease is the number one killer of women, right? But everybody thinks it might be a cancer of some sort, but it’s cardiovascular and cardiometabolic. And then all the comorbidities impact your cardiometabolic conditions. So a lot of the gynecological conditions, endometriosis, fibroids, heavy menstrual bleeding, adenomyosis, all these specific conditions impact your cardiometabolic health. Even menopause, hot flushes, it’s impacting your cardiometabolic. So if you don’t manage for that, so I think getting over the stigma related with the term women’s health, but the way we define it, just for audience listening, is any disease or condition that distinctly, which is like just women, disproportionately or differentially impacts women from head to toe across the lifespan. That’s a definition we’ve uh, you know, it’s established and accepted across all institutes. But that’s the clear piece going beyond that bikini medicine. So I think being informed, being aware, engaging with organizations that are doing work, and there’s actually grassroots organizations within communities. Maybe Liz, you can talk about the maternal health one you recently went to. But there’s so many ways to get engaged, and I think it’s just starting with being aware and wanting to do it.

Lyn Wineman: 15:39

Yeah, yeah. And you know, Nada, sometimes issues like this can seem a little bit overwhelming. You don’t have to know everything all at once, right? You can lean in, especially this episode is gonna air in February of 2026. It’s heart month. There’s a lot of women’s heart causes and opportunities that are sharing information and having events right now. That would be even an easy place to start. So, Liz, I’d love to hear this. And I love that the two of you come at this from a slightly different perspective. In your mind, what are some of the things we could do to advocate for the health of women?

Liz Powell: 16:16

Yeah, well, I just 100% agree. Getting educated is super important. And we do have on our website, womenshealthadvocates.org, we have fact sheets, we have information that might be helpful, even just basic information, you know, heart disease, Neta touched on, autoimmune disease, 80% of patients are women, Alzheimer’s, two-thirds of patients are women. There are stats and figures out there for basically any condition that you’re concerned about. So getting informed, definitely number one. Number two, knowing that your voice matters in the system. Literally, every single member of Congress works for us. We are paying their salary, right? Taxpayers, they work for us. And they really know it when it comes to elections, right? Right. So sending in that letter, you might feel like, oh, it’s just a black hole, nothing’s gonna happen. But it does matter, and they have to document all the letters that come in. And when they start to get dozens, 30, 50, 100 letters on one issue, ding, ding, ding. As a former legislative director, I can tell you that would get my attention. I’d then have to go talk to the boss and be like, boss, we’re getting a ton on maternal health, for example. So it does turn into impact. And we at Women’s Health Advocates have on our website letters drafted for you. So all you have to do is go in and put your address, and then your members of Congress will pop up. So you don’t have to know who they are. So two senators, one rep for each of us that will pop up the letters drafted for you, and then you just take an extra two minutes to portionalize it. Put in a survivor or what you know, whatever your angle is. It’s super, super important. So just keep in mind that as a constituent, your voice is very, very important. If you have a credential, like you’re a doctor, um, or if you’re a CEO, that means that you employ people in their district. Those things matter too. So just know that that your input really can have an impact. And then the other way to get involved is to join Women’s Health Advocates, of course. Come to our events. We have events on Capitol Hill where we do Capitol Hill days. We did the first ever last year. There’d never been a Women’s Health Advocates.

Come, participate, meet with your members of Congress, meet their staff, tell them your story, tell them why a specific health issue is important to you. And then we have events out across the country. We’ve had 15 different events across the country, both coasts and in between. So there’s lots of ways to get involved, to learn how to be an advocate and to make your voice count.

Lyn Wineman: 18:48

I love that. You know what? This would be a great time since you both mentioned it several times. Can we talk a little bit more about women’s health advocates? When was it formed? What are some of the other things you do? I know you have events. I followed your Capitol Hill Day, which was was one of the reasons I was so eager to talk to both of you. I think I even signed, I even signed on and found some friends of mine that were in states that you didn’t have to help get started early on. I was kind of a quiet person behind the scenes, but yeah, right? Let’s talk a little bit more about women’s health advocates. Tell us more about what they do and let’s get that website out there too. Is it womenhealthadvocates.org as easy as it sounds?

Liz Powell: 19:33

As easy as it sounds, yeah. So Nada and I have been scheming a while on a lot of different women’s health initiatives, and we were talking about how there really needs to be this one organization for all of it. And it is not to replace anything else, it is to be additive. So we love the organizations focused on heart health, for example, since you mentioned that earlier. Black Women’s Health Imperative is another awesome partner. Like we love to be additive and amplify what other groups are doing. Our lens, our number one focus is education and advocacy. And because we are not a nonprofit, we can lobby a hundred percent of the time all day long. We can even talk about fundraising. Like there’s so much we can do that our wonderful nonprofit partners cannot do. So together, we’re all much stronger and have a better impact in the systems. So that was the thinking and pulling this together. And we, as I said, we officially launched it publicly in February a year ago. And in that year, we’ve now reached all 50 states. We’ve had over 2,000 letters go into Congress. We’ve had three Capitol Hill days, we’ve had several online events, we’ve had 15 events now across the country. And the maternal health event we just did in Birmingham was phenomenal. Great media coverage. So, what we’re finding is that everywhere we go in this country, people, all people, men, women, they are all interested and want to learn more and see what they can do to make their voice count. And so that’s why I think we have tapped into something magical and we’re just trying to amplify that.

Lyn Wineman: 21:07

You know, even though I’ve just met the two of you like 15 minutes ago, I would love to be in the room when the two of you are scheming because I can only imagine how magic happens. The sparks that fly. Nada, I’d love to hear your perspective on women’s health advocates since you come at this from a little bit different angle.

Nada Hanafi: 21:27

Well, I mean, it’s kudos to Liz. Liz has the idea, and we all say, yes, Liz. And we are a hundred percent in. And so I love always saying collaboration saves lives. And Liz is one person who truly embodies that. Like she is like, no nonsense, no ego. I just want the best minds at the table.

Lyn Wineman: 21:53

I can feel that, Nada. I can just I’m just saying it once again, only knowing the two of you for 15 minutes. I I can feel that energy from both of you.

Nada Hanafi: 22:02

Yeah. And she truly believes it. Like, she’s like, just let’s get this job done. And I love that. No nonsense. And she’s very intentional in terms of who she brings around. And then create space where people feel safe, feel seen, feel heard. And want to do more. And that’s what she’s really done. And she says it herself. I’m going to use your words, Liz. You know, it’s not a moment, it’s a movement. And it’s this ongoing movement. Like, you know, to win the race, it’s how you go long in the long haul. And I think that’s what women’s health advocates is, and just the people we get surrounded by the genius. And like I say, I always say, the genius is in this room, the power of those brains. And when people actually care, that’s when change happens. And one big piece is we have a lot of fun. So when you have fun and you enjoy what you’re doing, you’re just going to do it better. And you’re going to bring people along with you. So I love the fact you’re picking up the energy. Energy is a big piece. I’m a true believer. Like, you know, energy cannot be created nor destroyed. It can only be transferred. So if we’re trying to keep this movement going, it has to be with a good energy and good heart.

Lyn Wineman: 23:20

I love that because you know, usually the word fun is not associated with government advocacy or health issues, right?

Nada Hanafi: 23:28

So maybe that’s something really regulatory. Forget regulatory. Everybody thinks we’re depending on the regulatory. But we can make regulatory science functions.

Lyn Wineman: 23:37

All right. If you say so, because I can’t even say the word without rolling my eyes. Just say it. Just saying. All right. I’d like to bring this a little bit closer to home. I am a woman of a certain age. All of my friends are going through menopause or pre-menopause. Everybody’s struggling with it. What can we do to help advocate for ourselves? Whether that’s our issue or whatever our issue is, what can women do to advocate for themselves?

Liz Powell: 24:06

Yeah, I love that question. And one of our teammates within Women’s Health Advocates is Rebecca Bloom. And she put it in these terms. There’s advocacy with the big A, and there’s advocacy with the lowercase A. So the big A, come to Washington, go to your statehouse, participate in these hill days, get active with your with the political candidates too, ask them what are you doing at women’s health. Absolutely big A, super, super important. But the little A is personal. Like each of us needs to know how to advocate for ourselves when we go to the doctor’s office. And even well-intentioned doctors miss things. And so we have to know how to push back and say, wait a second, dense breasts. I should be getting additional screening. The mammogram’s not going to be enough. You know, part of our job is to is to push and to educate the doctors, which is frustrating, but that is the system now. So using that voice, pushing back, getting a second opinion, whatever the situation is, that’s really, really important. Um, and that is part of what we’re trying to promote as well. So all forms of advocacy are needed. And so that’s my thought on advocacy.

Nada Hanafi: 25:15

I was gonna add, Lyn, I think is trust your body. You are the knower of yourself, you know your body best, right? I think we talked about it earlier, stigma. The more you talk about it, it’s like the less stigmatizing it is, right? And people may feel initially uncomfortable if you say menopause or hot flash or right.

Lyn Wineman: 25:39

I just said menopause on a podcast that 500 to a thousand people are going to listen to, right? And that’s probably a first for me, yeah.

Nada Hanafi: 25:47

But it’s a bit like you know, menopause is guaranteed. We’re women make up what 51% of the population. We’re all gonna go through menopause. In some format, not that it’s all the same, it varies, it differs, you know, there’s so many aspects to it. But I think the fact that you ask the question, you’re aware, you recognize, oh, I actually can ask the question. Now what do I ask? And I think there’s a lot of services out there, many of them are part of our steering committee and part of Women’s Health Advocate. Liz and team pulled off a phenomenal online congressional briefing on menopause, which you can actually go and find on our website. And it’s also linked on YouTube. The information there, the things to be aware of, what to ask your doctor. I mean, one of the big policy advocacy policy work we’re doing is to make sure more physicians are trained on this stage of life, how to recognize it. A lot of it is symptom-based, right? There isn’t per se a test, but it’s again just being aware of these things. There’s some great movies and documentaries, M Factor, M Factor 2, Liz and team are hosting a screening of that in Boston. Am I correct?

Liz Powell: 27:02

You are right, February 26th.

Nada Hanafi: 27:08

And wasn’t there a screening also in the LA area with Susan? You mentioned Susan Willig. Again, it’s just how can we enable you to take on what you care about and host an informational meeting, bring women together, access to physicians who are trained in the space, or services. There’s a lot of online services and providers out there who are now saying, yeah, they see the ROI, but there’s also this huge unmet patient need that they’re stepping up to address and doing it in an equitable and meaningful way, again, centering around patients. Because each one of our experiences going through perimenopause, menopause, similar to if we had, if we went through pregnancy and postpartum, will be different.

Lyn Wineman: 27:56

I appreciate that. You know, what you’ve said about the big A and the little A advocacy as a business owner, you know, and a woman who employs mostly women, you know, being aware of what happens to a team member as they’re going through menopause, as they are returning to work from pregnancy, as they’re going through other things, being able to honor and understand that and not discount it, I think is a really important aspect as well. But I am going to give some props to my mom, who I hope is listening. But she taught me as a young woman to advocate for myself when going to see the doctor. She would say, when you go in there, don’t make light of this. Like tell them your problem and don’t let them walk out until you have some relief. And I feel like that’s what I have taught only not only to my own two daughters, but my daughter-in-law, as well as several of the young women that work for me. It’s like you go in there and you stand your ground and make sure you’ve got what you need before you leave. So I appreciate that.

Liz Powell: 29:04

Did you say I love that? Yeah, a major props to your mom. And think about those of us who are moms. If that was our kid, you better believe Mama Bear is all over it, right?

Lyn Wineman: 29:19

You gotta learn to be your own mama bear, right? In some cases. In some cases, I love it. All right, I’m gonna switch gears here. I’m gonna ask you two my favorite question. I’ve asked it on every episode of the Agency for Change podcast. I get to talk to so many wonderful people like the two of you, and I’m inspired by motivational quotes. I would like an original quote from each of you. And Nada, I’d love to start with you. A Nada Hanafi original quote.

Nada Hanafi: 29:53

Oh, oh, I know, and you told us to think about this ahead of time. There’s so many, and there’s so many that I love and really lean into. Like I love a lot of the MLK, Martin Luther King quotes. I have a big Michelle Obama quote. I had a lot of my talks with her quotes. Wow, I think I gave you the one earlier. Like, if you’re in healthcare, you’re in it for service, right? But there’s another one that I actually love as well. You know, you’re in it for service, but the equity aspect, like, like you can’t, it’s not it’s not a nice to have. It is a must-have. Otherwise, we will never see those good health outcomes we’re seeking. So it has to be embedded in everything we do. I know it’s not a quote. I am gonna work on that. So don’t talk to me again. We can give you an update in a couple of months.

Lyn Wineman: 31:02

That is gonna be the best excuse ever for a follow-up conversation. And you know what? I feel like you just gave me two quotes there, so you’re not giving yourself enough credit. But Liz, now you’ve had a minute to think about it. Can I have a Liz Powell original quote?

Liz Powell: 31:19

You can have a Liz Powell original quote. I have this quote, I came up with this quote after our first Capitol Hill Day last May. And it is our voice is our power, our power depends on all of us, which is exactly why we need to be doing advocacy and voting in 2026. I love it.

Lyn Wineman: 31:40

See, I have an ulterior motive here that someday someone will say, I love MLK quotes, I love Michelle Obama quotes, I love Nada Hanafi quotes, I love Liz Powell quotes. So that’s what I’m looking for. I love the vision, you too. All right, this has been such a fun conversation, and I want to wrap up by just giving you each a chance to tell me what is the most important thing you would like people to remember about this work? And Liz, we’ll start with you first. What is the most important thing that you would like people to remember about your work in this space?

Liz Powell: 32:22

I want people to remember how important their voice is in our system. That is what makes democracy work. And so you have to advocate, you have to share when you’re concerned about something, and you have to register to vote and vote. All those things shape the world we live in. And there’s that quote be the change you want to see in the world. You can be that change.

Lyn Wineman: 32:44

Amazing. I love it. All right, Nada, you get the last word.

Nada Hanafi: 32:52

These are too good at questions. It’s like, what can I say? I’m gonna maybe we’re gonna have to write a book, Liz. We live in a world that’s really disheartening right now in many, many ways. But I think I said it earlier where maybe you take that pain or you take that anger and you turn it into good. Someone said it, I think it was at JPM, Liz, right? The force of good and the power of doing good, right? And again, I said earlier, you know, collaboration saves lives. I truly believe that, but it’s the power of we. We never do it, you can’t do it alone. Hence where as Liz said, dig deep, find your voice, and find where you can make an impact because you can, and then do it with a group of people who will challenge you. I’m also Liz knows this, like when we’re doing our conniving or you know, conspiring thoughts process. It’s the power of differences. Like we be we live in a world where everyone wants to say different is bad. It’s not, it’s beautiful, and it’s understanding and embracing those to do good, so that different perspective, that different lived experience, the different race, ethnicity, having more women at the table, having more people of color at the table, having different ages. Like we’re a certain age group, but one thing we’re like very intentionally making sure all voices can come and move to develop the change we want to see. So I don’t know, and I guess just be empathetic. Start with yourself, being empathetic on yourself, and then empathetic in what you do. One thing I did, and I should have given you this quote when you’re designing for women and our unique needs, design with empathy in mind. Because historically, everything that you know in the healthcare, not much of it is very empathetic and it’s quite painful. But we are smart enough to make it definitely less painful and more empathetic in everything we do. So the empathy piece. I know I did not answer your question directly.

Lyn Wineman: 35:17

You did, it was so good. And Nada, here’s what I’m gonna say. I feel like you have given me so many original quotes throughout this conversation until the moment I asked you for one. There are so many wise words that you have said. And this has been one of my favorite conversations on this podcast. We’re nearing 300 episodes. I love what you’re doing. I appreciate what you’re doing. Nada and Liz, I’m gonna say the world needs more people like you, more organizations like women’s health advocates. Thank you, thank you, thank you for spending time with us today.

Nada Hanafi: 35:57

Thank you. Thank you for having us, and thank you for doing what you’re doing, giving a voice to people. Again, you’re helping people recognize they have a voice and it has an impact.

Lyn Wineman: 36:07

Thank you for that. It’s my it’s my honor. This is one of my favorite things that I get to do, ladies. Thank you so much.

Announcer: 36:18

We hope you enjoyed today’s Agency for Change podcast. To hear all our interviews with those who are making a positive change in our communities, or to nominate a change maker you’d love to hear from, visit kidglov.com at kidglov.com to get in touch. As always, if you like what you’ve heard today, be sure to rate, review, subscribe, and share. Thanks for listening, and we’ll see you next time.